From nobody Mon Nov 7 22:06:19 2022 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4N5lgK53Jmz4gWY0 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2022 22:06:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe29.google.com (mail-vs1-xe29.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4N5lgJ6gN5z5Zc2 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2022 22:06:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe29.google.com with SMTP id t14so11964993vsr.9 for ; Mon, 07 Nov 2022 14:06:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VLAFZ3FFRNE9SBk1ruCHiBpzwctmqhmSvEoQDNrF7tY=; b=N3KnjirfH731snjTiqL4WMVYqV02bKTJFZL4erWBH5FffBtlIKTYxz39N70fHSFGHN PLKQ9rcE5wZljqt3EpJEm0dvYfbaQg5CN9OjRDAI5Z1Vodh9j8R+3jLrNz/9JE230NCm 75iDYa2AsJXK6ABHlMXYh1tIL/SmOSdCkTd7d3NqvRUjFSJpmOaT/NYTee6X23DbPZE5 p1dRkCMPAT9swL1Hlrr3Yn/ko1hQO5DR/E37GlSLqP57r60uOlTcFOdtz91Zl0zjKS9R /ob4MEpmoTgGetnI/qfSsof4EZN0Tam9sJLkg4FS/VgDcfSq1McFqFTeNfXHgc0xi/e1 HbUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VLAFZ3FFRNE9SBk1ruCHiBpzwctmqhmSvEoQDNrF7tY=; b=X0EqGRZuFnrZHlwbBYzlLmai7MpSsrUTvc8bUb8/9J27FE6KPbZ6V8A7cwhYUGQhph IT/tQ7VMClg59hKv12ALCEtc3aaRT8MeJN6LHZql2LYpdMn8YArIgqcNs6x1TFAbXXag k3LRuJVIy2KNSb3tz2cXvBEhA4csUdyQSS/LBsVcLI7EXGewcyQ+9PsLtX+YZtP0HsrB zHPG6Sl3Iy612r7A0ihHrLFL4x5/KfIW6k2ykIxT980gyKMdHsXybMe0LjBdA35Lj9mb dYYuxdXktm0KyEkrPDzFs/5+FFYFDibtMs5UCUTJtIAkdnX6Ja9wYFr+GlToDstnI6ty Fnug== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf01wEaxz12Dkp+ogeQ/Z/4knMRbNtb5269wdfil64KPu/Iu5kUn icZfpOvp9cmkl5B816nkGvrjuxIHWwRrK5x8qKk0K5EVw6qRBPHBF0k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7N7sGYx7CmUF3ZVbRsg6LDA5t88Fd8mthfRm0uLwUDXFFkjT34h4tKg5R2FydckWC5LalvRifmzcOCvUhlCc0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f648:0:b0:3aa:80c8:c469 with SMTP id u8-20020a67f648000000b003aa80c8c469mr26787162vso.84.1667858779778; Mon, 07 Nov 2022 14:06:19 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a59:5d11:0:b0:324:d963:1eff with HTTP; Mon, 7 Nov 2022 14:06:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20221107140413.4812551865f473cfc4a993d5@sohara.org> References: <20221106222404.ew2xhposne7aesvw@freebsd> <20221107131823.67c957cadb4bd11a4d00ba03@sohara.org> <20221107140413.4812551865f473cfc4a993d5@sohara.org> From: grarpamp Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2022 17:06:19 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Posting Style To: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4N5lgJ6gN5z5Zc2 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=N3Knjirf; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grarpamp@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grarpamp@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.992]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::e29:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > The place where top posting makes most sense is the corporate > environment where an email thread starts with two (or more) people and as > discussion goes on more people are added to weigh in with their thoughts. > Done right it looks a bit like this when it arrives in the unsuspecting > Fiona's inbox, complete with all the context she needs to see what's going > on. She just has to read it message by message from bottom to top. No, that's complete utter nonsense because now poor Fiona is also forced by others into wasting her brain cycles trying to read reverse hodgepodge from bottom to top, gearshifting reading direction with every included snippet (which are in top-down form), to get the "full context" necessary anyways for her to not make professional error or negligience in whatever her duly considered reply ends up being. All those wasted burnt brain cycles add up across the enterprise. > She just has to read it message by message from bottom to top. And this here exactly admits that that is indeed the actual horrible situation... she "has to read it" all in backwards fashion, where "just has to" is a trick phrase to get her to do something different, extra burn, unnatural. Nothing is read from bottom to top, not books, not newspapers, not flyers, not signs, not computer terminals, not spreadsheets, nothing. There is no way for bottom-up "done right" because it is fundamentally wrong opposite against how humans run language. All the "corporate environment" top-post apologists are doing is making invalid excuses for their sorry lazy writing behaviours random junk tools and random contracts instead of teaching their staff to do standard top to bottom like everything else. These "environments" also waste endless cycles futzing their source code because they don't follow codequette there either. It's garbage netiquette perpetuated by the uninitiated, the lazy careless, and the impetulent flippants upon others. Allow garbage, get garbage, and it's getting worse because of that. Computing writing is a responsibility, teach your children. Quit top-posting, html'ing, whole msg quoting, etc. And get a real MUA that lets you actually see what your disgustingly torrid mess of an email looks like for real in real 80x25 plaintext... if that doesn't wake you up and tell you what's wrong and make you fix your emails, nothing will. Cheers :)