From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 5 06:09:15 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FBB16A4DA for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:09:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (vc4-2-0-87.dsl.netrack.net [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2399843D49 for ; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 06:09:15 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost.village.org [IPv6:::1] (may be forged)) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6566oF2079818; Wed, 5 Jul 2006 00:06:50 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 00:06:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <20060705.000654.-1543907249.imp@bsdimp.com> To: kmacy@fsmware.com, kip.macy@gmail.com From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: References: <20060703103420.B26325@fledge.watson.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: S@msmith.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, mime@traveller.cz, rwatson@freebsd.org, czander@nvidia.com Subject: Re: NVIDIA FreeBSD kernel feature requests X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 06:09:15 -0000 In message: "Kip Macy" writes: : > Producing a driver for a GPU card, especially one that possibly converts from : > GL-foo to foo appropriate to program and feed an ASIC on a video card, is : > quite different matter entirely. : > : > I'm all for open source drivers, and would also encourage NVIDIA to continue : > to reconsider their closed source driver approach where it makes sense : > (especially for the network interfaces). However, I think that we shouldn't : > conflate these two cases rhetorically, as there are orders of magnitude : > complexity (and intellectual property) differences. : : Furthermore, requesting needed changes to the kernel interfaces is : completely orthogonal to their documentation policies. It is well documented that NVIDIA gives you binary drivers. Other vendors give you source or binary as they see fit. When you have a choice, the type of driver may factor into what you buy. When you don't have a choice (because, say, it is a built-in chip), the availability of a binary-only driver vs no driver at all may save your laptop or computer from being a paperweight. As interesting as such choices are, they, as Kip points out, are orthogonal to suggestions on how FreeBSD could be better. Even if NVIDIA had release open source drivers for their current binary drivers, the issues they took the trouble to document and writeup in a clear, coherent fashion here would still be present. It is in the best interest of the FreeBSD project to accept this valuable input and evaluate it on its merits, rather than on our political judgment of the messenger. Warner