From owner-cvs-all Wed Apr 3 13:13:28 2002 Delivered-To: cvs-all@freebsd.org Received: from quemadura.shockwave.org (quemadura.shockwave.org [63.199.168.250]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D238037B416; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from trianon (trianon.shockwave.org [192.111.107.43]) by quemadura.shockwave.org (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with SMTP id g33LDA9v016832; Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:13:10 -0800 Message-ID: <001c01c1db54$52665ae0$2b6b6fc0@shockwave.org> From: "Paul Traina" To: "Jordan Hubbard" Cc: "Mikhail Teterin" , , , , , , , References: <28993.1017865952@winston.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/sysinstall install.c installUpgrade Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:12:54 -0800 Organization: Traina & Assocaties, LLC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The package management implementation could always be improved upon. I agree with you that they are fearfully slow to install, but that's not the fault of the data that is in the .pkg file, nor do I believe it is a fault of the relationships between the packages. Rather, I think that the tools could just use some improvement (e.g. create .db indices of the Packages/Available/Status packages). Overall, it's a great packaging system, far better designed than RPM. RPM has just done the extra work to optimize the speed of installation (and it does a whole lot less than deb on install). I'd be totally happy with us either taking the whole kit-and-caboodle in, and then speeding up the slow bits, or coming out with a binary-compatible and api compatible package system that uses the same sort of data files & formats on our own. Heck, I'll even reduce that to: "Guys, there is a lot to learn about the right ways of doing packaging and package dependencies from the Debian crowd. Study it, it's good stuff, knocks RPM on its behind." Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Hubbard" To: "Paul Traina" Cc: "Mikhail Teterin" ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:32 PM Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/sysinstall install.c installUpgrade > Actually, Debian packages are fearfully *slow* given that there's no > database underlying them, just flat text files which become very > laborious to scan and index as the collection of installed packages > grows. > > If you're honestly looking for the most superior packaging technology > out there, and the field hasn't got many candidates so be very clear > on the fact that "superior" is very relative to that fact, then > you need look no further than RPMs. It pains me to say that given > the sheer ickyness of the spec file format and the package storage > format, but in terms of feature set and speed, you can't touch RPMs. > > - Jordan > > > > debian .deb packages, *please*. Having used both Free and Deb, I have to > > say that Deb cleans our clock hands down. What you want to wrap it in is > > almost irrelevant. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jordan Hubbard" > > To: "Mikhail Teterin" > > Cc: ; ; ; > > ; ; ; > > ; > > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:12 AM > > Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.sbin/sysinstall install.c installUpgrade > > > > > > > > But .zip is noticeably bigger than .tar.gz. Not to mention, .tar.bz2. > > > > And the package size is what's of the highest priority, IMHO, since > > > > disks and especially bandwidth don't grow nearly as fast as the CPU > > > > speeds. > > > > > > You must live outside the US, that's all I can say. That assertion > > > is completely false here. > > > > > > I would also argue that package size is of the highest priority - > > > that's patently untrue. What's the highest priority in packaging > > > formats is providing enough power and mechanism to make the package > > > installation experience a lot more robust and user-friendly. Disks > > > are getting so cheap and so large (in even the most humble user > > > configurations) that I'd probably put package size _last_. > > > > > > I also live in the middle of the woods with redwood trees and all > > > sorts of wildlife around and even I have 1.5MBit worth of downstream > > > bandwidth via my ADSL line. Just imagine how well-connected all those > > > city people must be! :-) > > > > > > - Jordan > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message