From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 8 10:54:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3AFF37B401; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:54:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sccrmhc03.attbi.com (sccrmhc03.attbi.com [204.127.202.63]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A30A743F75; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:54:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown[12.242.158.67]) by attbi.com (sccrmhc03) with ESMTP id <2003050817545200300jjq85e>; Thu, 8 May 2003 17:54:52 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.5) with ESMTP id h48Hv2Ac026375; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.9/8.12.5/Submit) id h48HupaZ026374; Thu, 8 May 2003 10:56:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: Terry Lambert References: <20030505170121.GA7950@HAL9000.homeunix.com> <3EB73128.B7FBCF5A@mindspring.com> <3EB9E8FC.39A86BA1@mindspring.com> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 08 May 2003 10:56:51 -0700 In-Reply-To: <3EB9E8FC.39A86BA1@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <454r45l3to.r45@localhost.localdomain> Lines: 45 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG cc: David Schultz Subject: Re: open source license with 24 month proprietary clause X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 17:54:55 -0000 Terry Lambert writes: > Revocation of the Net/2 licenses by UCB, and revocation of > the UCSD P-Code system licenses by UCSD are two examples of > case law that contradict your "some lawyer's web site". More likely, they're really just two examples of licensees not wanting to pay enough to defend their rights. Examples to be learned from. > You can't even tell me not to walk across your property, if > you haven't prevented me from doing it for some period of > time. But it's not a license that prevents you from doing > this, it's because I've established an interest through what's > called a "prescriptive lien via adverse use". 8-). I'll use your approach to argument here. Your first sentence is wrong because I can't have prevented you if you've never tried. Your second sentence is wrong in its implication (that what I said was wrong) because I never said that the license prevents me from withdrawing permission; I said that law prevents you from withdrawing license in a certain case, which your case has nothing to do with. > One good thing about people trying to treat IP as real property Of course, real property is just a term with many meanings, usually just referencing a set of intangible legal rights which attach to something physical, which patent and copyrights utlimately do too. > is that if they are successful, I'll be able to use their > software patents, and if they don't stop me immediately, I'll > be able to claim a prescreptive lien through adverse use. You'll be allowed to do such things when the law allows you to, regardless of anyone's understanding of what real property is or what is considered to be real property. Such terms are too fuzzy for words. > It's not. The hold harmless is something the licensee would > need to do anyway, if they didn't take the software. So it's > not like they've given anything to the licensor that they > didn't already have. That's the silly argument I've heard in a long time. (Only someone as clever as you could come up with such a thing.) The two hold harmlesses have very different values, as I'm sure the licensor's insurance company would agree -- the difference in value being the consideration.