From owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 22 11:31:38 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B5316A4B3 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from twoface.shiftmanager.net (adsl-64-170-199-98.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.170.199.98]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78ED343F75 for ; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:31:37 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kwerle@pobox.com) Received: from mail.shiftmanager.net (localhost.shiftmanager.net [127.0.0.1]) h9MIYt2q031259; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:34:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kwerle@pobox.com) Received: from 64.170.199.99 (SquirrelMail authenticated user kurt) by mail.shiftmanager.net with HTTP; Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <50550.64.170.199.99.1066847695.squirrel@mail.shiftmanager.net> In-Reply-To: <20031022174555.GE18899@zot.electricrain.com> References: <16278.47714.351403.755887@emerger.yogotech.com><50255.64.170.199.99.1 066844186.squirrel@mail.shiftmanager.net> <20031022174555.GE18899@zot.electricrain.com> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:34:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kurt Werle" To: chris-freebsd@randomcamel.net User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsddom and java's flaming hoops X-BeenThere: freebsd-java@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting Java to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:31:38 -0000 >> I wonder how they do it. > > with a lot of NDAs and possibly money changing hands? and not having the > JVM source available to users? all of which contradict the spirit, > purpose, and capabilities of FreeBSD? If I really want to, I can grab the Java sources. No matter who ships what, you always have to NDA to SUN if you want Java source. I just want the binaries. For that, I shouldn't need to jump hoops. (NOTE **SHOULD** not need to - this is the ideal) > if you want an OS producer that can and does act like a closed-source > for-profit corporation, there are at least two for you to choose > from. enjoy. Do you mean FreeBSD producers? Who and who? If I can buy a CD that would get me a solid FreeBSD system with Java included, I'll STFU. > meanwhile, the FreeBSD guys have gone god-knows-how-many rounds with Sun > to make all this happen, outside of the coding effort itself. not only > that, but they've produced tangible, useful results. And believe me, I appreciate the hell outta that! > I don't think we're > in any position to provide unconstructive criticism regarding features of > the situation that no one can really control. 2 points: 1. I am in a position to complain. I'm a user. It's what users do. It's up to suppliers to decide whether the users should get what they want (yeah, that's a somewhat rhetorical statement). 2. Clearly, someone can control the situation. It may take money, it may take favors, it may take asking. Kurt