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Date:      Fri, 5 Jan 2018 10:40:20 +0800
From:      Erich Dollansky <freebsd.ed.lists@sumeritec.com>
To:        freebsd-security@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Intel hardware bug
Message-ID:  <20180105104020.51c2a742.freebsd.ed.lists@sumeritec.com>
In-Reply-To: <86vaghu0ps.fsf@desk.des.no>
References:  <02563ce4-437c-ab96-54bb-a8b591900ba0@FreeBSD.org> <19876.1515025752@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <20180104132807.266fe46c.freebsd.ed.lists@sumeritec.com> <86vaghu0ps.fsf@desk.des.no>

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Hi,

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 16:01:51 +0100
Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav <des@des.no> wrote:

> Erich Dollansky <freebsd.ed.lists@sumeritec.com> writes:
> > Intel used segments to separate things everybody hated. =20
>=20
> Everybody hated segment-level memory protection, but the i386 also

good that hate is meanwhile illegal.

> introduced page-level memory protection, which was widely used and has
> since been expanded to provide features that were never available at
> the segment level.

Yes, but instead of combining both, the segment registers were set to
point to the same memory locations disabling the additional protection
given by the segments.
>=20
> > Intel introduced later the rings, everybody ignored. =20
>=20
> Not at all.  They just don't use all four.  Unless you start looking
> at hardware virtualization extensions, which introduce additional
> protection levels.

It was just abusing them to replace the supervisor flag other
processors have or have had.
>=20
> > Instead of keeping the things separated - as suggested by Intel's
> > design - people used shortcuts whenever possible. =20
>=20
> This is irrelevant.  We are talking about timing-based side-channel
> attacks.  The attacker is not able to access protected memory
> directly, but is able to deduce its contents by repeatedly performing
> illegal memory accesses and then checking how they affect the cache.

Directly yes, not if the kernel memory would be always in a different
segment. It would land then in cache only when memory near segment
bounds are accessed. Which could be easily avoided.

Anyway, we cannot turn the clock back now. I just wanted to mention
that Intel has had different thoughts those days. I am not even sure if
Intel engineers remember this.

Erich



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