From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Apr 10 15:32:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1F632C0DCB for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:32:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48zMTk4gKzz4BpW; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:32:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 03AFWsNh041350 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:32:55 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1586532775; bh=xmI8uGjuuCGubEYxKqC1062WWerVOtW48Fdd8IF7Qzo=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=WC67ZF71sEBSPLndlK1d7QIWIWbaz9vJLatXnUReFihQJ5MLRQHgEK6H7ihx+QPFy oWMyDGdUUp2t0YSNdKFv34S885R2+GFDnnnJu3DUceLdmkabEbRsl8qaCFdQ3btMPg SyIUvwYev+tavcJxRgjk/DwTXBylv0XnXZnhORPA= Received: from localhost (puchar-wojtek@localhost) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 03AFWsWM041347; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:32:54 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from puchar-wojtek@puchar.net) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 17:32:54 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Ed Maste cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48zMTk4gKzz4BpW X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 15:32:59 -0000 Not really interesting to turn good OS to runtime environment for point and click crap. Fortunately it is still possible to use graphical mode with something more normal. like full screen programs and switching between then with keypresses. All with good old fvwm2. my 20 year old fvwm2 config survived linux, netbsd, then (longest) FreeBSD mostly unchanged. The sad part is that we need Xorg at all. Why unix idea of console espace sequences didn't evolve properly to support all graphics? X11 is a disaster from the start, turned to even worse disaster after. Not FreeBSD fault of course