Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:27:07 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Message-ID: <199602032127.OAA04330@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199602031634.LAA25194@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Feb 3, 96 11:34:41 am
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> >> Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only > >> motherboard? > >> > >> 6 (or more) PCI slots > >> No frigging ISA slots. > >> No frigging IDE interface. > >> Zilog UARTs, not Intel (sync serial, X.25, Appletalk, HDLC) > >> NCR53C8xx SCSI on board > >> DEC21040 or AM79C970 ethernet on board > >> Motorola/Eagle MPC105 PCO Bridge/Memory controller > >> FIFO'ed floppy controller > >> S3964 PCI video(?) > >> bidirectional stereo DSP (Gravis?) > >> OpenFirmware boot ROMs > >> Some good clock hardware > >> Seperate keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface. > >> Maybe a parallel port (IEEE 1284 bidirectional/level 3) > > > >You'll also need a good bios for allowing to select if you want to boot > >from fd/hdd/network. And perhaps also some basic diagnostics (so if you > >think you have bad RAM you won't have to boot dos to run the test :) > > > >Anyway - just build the board and I warrant I'm going to buy some! > > you forgot the on-board watchdog timer :-) No I didn't. IMO, you could put it in a riser socket. Like the original clock "chips" that plugged into the processor socket instead of the processor and provided a socket on top for the processor; added 1/8th of an inch to processor elevation. > This is a good antithesis of why PCs are so popular. One mans "dream > machine" is another mans boat anchor. I wouldnt take this machine > for free. You are silly. If it's free, never look a gift-horse in the mouth. > "wouldn't use dumb sync uarts" Well, spec a different UART, then. Sun hasn't done too bad with Zilog parts. It's the applicability of the port that I'm interested in: I want a small number of external boxes for any particular sync or async communications setup. If you have another chipset in mind, feel free to recommend it. It needs to do: o Regular serial o Timeout interrupt on partially full FIFO's so mice don't hang with only 3 characters in the buffer while the chip waits for 5/13 more. o Sync serial o X.25 (like Sun) o Appletalk (like Sun) o HDLC (like Sun) o ISDN (like your boards o Cheap commodity parts o Non-divider based clock The problem with Intel is you can't use the FIFO's if you have a mouse and you can't tell you have a mouse unless you ask the user and the user shouldn't have to answer stupid questions for stupid hardware when good hardware will work instead. The Zilog parts will also do MIDI with 6 tiny parts that can go into the cable hood on the computer side of things; all they need is the current loop conversion, since they don't have the stupid Intel clock divider, they have a real clock source. Appletalk? Another cable. X.25? Another cable. > "can't plug in my internal modem" You can if it's a PCI modem. Or if you put in a PCI PCMCIA card and plug in a PCMCIA modem. Or (GASP!) use a Motorolla DSP and one of the Motorolla programs for download to turn the DSP into an internal modem. ********************************************** ********************************************** ** ISA MUST DIE. THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. ** ********************************************** ********************************************** Use an external modem anyway. I don't know one internal modem that correctly floats DTR, DCD, RTS, and CTS simultaneously, except the real old Hayes and US Robotices before they went to UART emulators. Internal modems suck. > "have to pay too much for a cd-rom drive" Maybe you are unaware that "IDE CDROMs" are just SCSI CDROMS with a IDE->SCSI interface. They puch SCSI commands over that interface. I was unable to find any price differential at "dirt cheap drives" for IDE vs. SCSI CDROM. Some drives, like the new Panasonic, only come in SCSI anyway. Call me when you find an IDE CDROM writer... 8-). IDE is one of those heinous bogosities, like ISA, IDE must die; unlike ISA, this is negotiable, since you can always (stupidly) plug in a PCI IDE card. > "too expensive to throw away next month when the new (whatever > they are) processors become available" So: 1) Daughter-card the processor logic, like Compaq or DEC does. Do it right, and you can use DEC modules, like their Alpha (Alpha and PPC and P7: the reason for the OpenFirmware interpreted BIOS & POST -- can't run x86 BIOS code on a real computer). 2) Drop the on board audio and video interfaces OR drop three of the slots and the PCI-PCI bridge logic. 3) Sell enough to get to the economy of scale price point. I could see two or three models anyway, one with 3 slots so it could avoid the PCI bridge to drive the other 3 slots, and one that was a "server only" configuration -- probably run a serial console on it: no video, no sound, no keyboard. I wouldn't recommend dropping the networking, since a $39 difference in Q1000 costing isn't worth not including something like that. > on of the reasons all-in-ones disappear so quickly. Yeah. Like those "Aptiva's" that "aren't selling". And those "soundbook" laptops that "no one is buying" because of their all-in-one. And all those Dell and USA-Flex and Comtrade and Gateway and Midwest Micro boxes that come pre-loaded with sound, video, and CDROM. Haven't seen a Mac in years (whatever happened to ol' Apple? Oh yeah -- they're shipping PCI-only PowerMac's these days). 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers.
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