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Date:      Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:24:37 -0700
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        Barney Wolff <barney@databus.com>
Cc:        Sean Chittenden <sean-freebsd-arch@chittenden.org>, Mike Silbersack <silby@silby.com>, arch@FreeBSD.ORG, net@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: TCP sequence numbers: RFC1948 patch ready for testing
Message-ID:  <3B605255.EDBA1D3C@mindspring.com>
References:  <20010725032805.A21133@tp.databus.com> <20010725185434.V35719-100000@achilles.silby.com> <20010725173859.C65546@rand.tgd.net> <20010725213812.A28964@tp.databus.com>

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Barney Wolff wrote:
> Existing sessions would not be broken by rekeying.  The risk is that
> some new session might fail - and this can happen any time a new
> session with the same tuple starts shortly after an old session which
> spans the rekeying event ends.
> 
> If it becomes possible to brute-force (or smart-sneak) reverse MD5
> in less time than the life of the Universe, the right answer is to
> change the hash, not to rekey.
> 
> You guys don't seem to want to believe RFC1948:
> 
>    Note that the secret cannot easily be changed on a live machine.
>    Doing so would change the initial sequence numbers used for
>    reincarnated connections; to maintain safety, either dead connection
>    state must be kept or a quiet time observed for two maximum segment
>    lifetimes after such a change.
> 
> Have you asked Steve Bellovin <smb@research.att.com> whether he still
> stands by those words?  He's not that unapproachable, despite being
> one of the most prominent folks in computer networking and security
> around.  But he earned that reputation by being right, pretty close
> to 100% of the time.

Consider that sequence number rollover is faster than you think
on a Gigabit system.  200,000 packets a second on unoptimized
firmware is not impossible, and the theoretical maximum is closer
to 1/2 million a second...

-- Terry

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