Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 16:46:30 -0800 From: Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> To: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@online.fr> Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mozilla (was: Openwatcom) Message-ID: <3E2DE9E6.831BD969@mindspring.com> References: <sj65sjr67h.5sj@localhost.localdomain> <20030120141556.E1857@papagena.rockefeller.edu> <20030120160000.F1857@papagena.rockefeller.edu> <hvadhvp7xi.dhv@localhost.localdomain> <3E2CC016.54BDBA5F@mindspring.com> <824r82pea2.r82@localhost.localdomain> <3E2DD7B9.4677E97A@mindspring.com> <20030122002719.GA20049@papagena.rockefeller.edu>
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Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > (I have not seen significant activity on > > the FreeBSD Mozilla list, to which I'm subscribed, for a very > > long time). > > Gee, I haven't seen any activity on the FreeBSD GCC list for a > while -- in fact I don't think such a list exists. GCC must be > dead, too. The interest of people attracted to FreeBSD in making changes to the GCC code base *is* dead. It's pretty much *been* dead, since the point that the FSF refused to integrate a.out share library support into binutils, and FreeBSD went off on its own with "ld" and similar code maintenance. Even if FreeBSD is "mainstreamed back into the fold" now, the amount of effort that the FSF can expect FreeBSD persons to spend on GCC is practically limited to porting and maintenance with respect to FreeBSD specific issues. FreeBSD folks are not going to be fixing "-march" to work as it should (for example); if that comes from anywhere, it's going to come from some GCC nerd somewhere who has a stronger interest in it than "it's a tool I use". For the same reasons Brett Glass can not motivate people in the FreeBSD camp to replace GCC, the GCC folks will be unable to motivate people in the FreeBSD camp to do signifcant work on GCC. > However, for mozilla, perhaps you could try the freebsd-gnome list. > This week's archives are on > http://docs.freebsd.org/mail/current/freebsd-gnome.html Other than two messages (one asking, and one replying) about an update of the posting (which is the wrong list for it), mostly it's people complaining about someone breaking it. Like GCC, Mozilla is furniture: no one notices it until it's not there, or until it's broken. Even so, it is *not* "an active project in the context of FreeBSD". My feeling is that the "FreeBSD-mozilla" list was to serve the purpose of competition "to the first working code", and never had much real utility, beyond motivating people in other places to work harder because of phantom (not real) compeititon towards this goal). It has served its purpose. In fact, I suggest disbanding the FreeBSD-mozilla mailing list. In any case, Mozilla is *now* an active project, but if you look at its history, it languished for volunteers for a *VERY* long, and only survived as a project because it was propped up and kept on life support by engineering resources from the Netscape corporate self interest department. Mozilla would never have survived in the wild, if it had not had a worried parent giving it blood transfusions for 3.5 years. Mozilla made the classic "Source Forge Faux Pas": you can not create an Open Source project merely by declaring it into existance, with no working code, and no support systems, with no feedback loops, etc.. Mozilla still suffers from this, though, in that their reputation was damaged in the process, which makes it harder for them to attract resources. The Open Watcom people are *similarly* trying "declare a project into existance", but they are, at least, doing it with working code, after "only" 0.5 years of blood transfusions. Whether or not it takes off now depends on their communications, their systems, and their legal issues, which control whether or not they will achieve critical mass in a self-sustaining social reaction. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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