From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Oct 26 20:45:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C476D44E706 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: from mail-wr1-x442.google.com (mail-wr1-x442.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::442]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CKn0W0LMzz3ThZ for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com) Received: by mail-wr1-x442.google.com with SMTP id j7so14306023wrt.9 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:45:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nmDU1GgXeBepBEG209BRKSTKtXZYy8vS4r5uG+unlbI=; b=B94MzzRnwW+ju2wkZmkdd8y7reuxoFvywgN9A4h9XXyn+NdZartV7uXtR6xeXmL2xl +SyGedMBMcyNdvJxENHXvUqVDciPFHDrcc6rvgJ7ady95p+GM2i+U2BFiMwfOXWW15rp l5+XoNUjIvHJ7CZthdaxCcOrPBcmNk4yhJlICkdlXqf5UPlZHG0izUJFDoJZ4LXIdQ0i YbR6OaMuzspX7MG/GMOAaqE51d+PjIlM0szh2QHK1Lv5kGeJ9lt6RWEuAC3GvLIcG6eN YDRcRgazhrP7DIUvaoxPh+key1f091ix8LAflvu4U020jx9FeKMqMSDO3i8xSv0uV+yk jGpA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5332wEpCDIRhA3llIZ8RSwUbFMTl0lUnWQ0BvnqbEIeOddmoFdy6 +DbHldmEjt9k+9oC40XFPGVQ49gVtlplXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwISISyqkGjmnDdaBjeZVOFFmDhyhKG6QEfyBGFXO7B0x5CPwmLrkVmuu7uyVizH/8yzgCXzw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f286:: with SMTP id k6mr12732911wro.34.1603745128964; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.121.231.131]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o5sm22951926wrw.76.2020.10.26.13.45.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:24 +0000 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: What is the "better / best " method to multi-boot different OSes natively WITHOUT VirtualBox(es) ? Message-ID: <20201026204524.7959ae0b@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> References: <20201024111010.5c867e8540a369b826d26703@sohara.org> <20201025065025.6a13dc89@archlinux> <20201025173321.8adee3e5.freebsd@edvax.de> <20201026153012.0cf46ec8@gumby.homeunix.com> <10e0134ddb726ac78174a63bd20ec0bdeb3c896d.camel@riseup.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CKn0W0LMzz3ThZ X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.44 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.121.231.131:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.995]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.54)[0.536]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::442:from]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:45:31 -0000 On Mon, 26 Oct 2020 17:51:04 +0100 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 2020-10-26 at 15:30 +0000, RW via freebsd-questions wrote: > > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 17:33:21 +0100 > > Polytropon wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 25 Oct 2020 06:50:25 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > I also want to add for consideration, if reboots between > > > > operating systems are often wanted and HDDs are used, it's way > > > > better when all drives, even the unused drives are spinning all > > > > the time. Parking and releasing heads very often, does shorten > > > > the life span the most. > > > > I think this is mostly a myth. > > In my experiences it isn't a myth. Note that I was talking specifically about head parking rather then power cycling in general. Your anecdote is about power cycling, not specifically parking. > The intern HDDs of my PCs did last > for around 2 years, when turning the computer off and on several > times a day and they did last for around 7 years, if the machine runs > more or less 24/7. I have contrary anecdotes that I wont bore you with. > > A few year ago Western Digital made some green drives, with > > extremely aggressive power saving, that parked within seconds. With > > some usage patters these could fail in months. I think it was > > around this time that people started talking about heads as if they > > were like sledge hammers. > > This is not true. And yet you go on to say that it probably is. > ... There probably were a few drives where this happened every few > seconds, Obviously those where it did happen are what I'm talking about. The drives were only available for a short period, WD changed the defaults back when they started to fail. My recollection is that this notion that parking is hugely violent and wearing started to spread around that time. Some of the explanations about why parking is so bad are absurd. I've even heard it said that the whole thing is left to a spring. My understanding is that parking is always controlled and performed under power, with the spindle motor being used as a generator if necessary.