From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Wed May 15 23:45:46 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E4B15A597D for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE8476730 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id AB82D15A597A; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F26A15A5977 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mail-lf1-x135.google.com (mail-lf1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD34B76729 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mail-lf1-x135.google.com with SMTP id v18so1156456lfi.1 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:45:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WoYWoujmJ9Eb0/yRXHQhV1vbONqyQ2OQiKw/cYojH74=; b=DbfnqZAjF4HUI0XReIT1/HUBvNOYspmcYRn2FX0Zab7pUEyipPGdNQlqwAkB3njMHW aI1ztla8GIOY70WjjSj8rcltshttgM8h85nBwANqUgr1t6A+FtF55TqXWY36Nm3ujZbr L7JHXx8DDKk/JLSBeKH0CJmu+otzFBtBPPtrHMrsVQgNVcASttVLSjUIGFQFWjtWN8JN lr4WinGRuPhUQ8BDMOLTcA5LofW0qHQav+1p/SbYjO6oanmQIRXf42pMpHl7rk8FN96G 95iaS9Niks2xzwNO64ZRAlodJvKkiFBgsj6Agn0vPgEMBUsU3DlPMr6a0uku2huJnyl+ W9PA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WoYWoujmJ9Eb0/yRXHQhV1vbONqyQ2OQiKw/cYojH74=; b=EBd46k+/za+cGAYUFvf0oelqinxxk5RT2VmL3fSeSUTPtpUXgckuEKiKFF/tvOdmrp MfVAvHjVtUXPzdY4x7WwIq785lTGvon1N4hYJDDLSEo4XKjKUlLgSGSgj1GmVMnQyKAT 40FQ4QjqXn1Cx/+ouub2hTKWWmksBISOmIz2DXW97UfgTCikqO5EnebrTsyn0lUSMM6s AwyjEb5BI9XaqI1Ob4BqGMgN9vtEqnUnatQYx6z51ZKgCLYA6U+c7s0VK0MmtQv6hg2Q Wqpocgeb47AjD49PlkqUb0LvBkldramzZ2ChH4nO77qGf9MuOcFiZZZOmmCItUr/M15Y oscA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX1lNWnSgBx9Uvd6kXlBS9QyHxIyXXdL92hUj9xE3doTJBn4GU7 SncN16X82PpFKRum9PayUmSP1VywOrZchSiJlYQaZrJ6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy/1qqvY8SjK/EMA6HnhqYT/DifwKK4HcD2LbmC0SzbXyVaVy18p/7WHYD8irokCNbfEGQ2BmDA3JUqS3wNIi0= X-Received: by 2002:a19:29c4:: with SMTP id p187mr21870236lfp.69.1557963941705; Wed, 15 May 2019 16:45:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: <201905151544.x4FFiR0G067138@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Steven Hartland Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 00:45:29 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Core Team , FreeBSD Stable ML , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: CD34B76729 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.95 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.947,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 23:45:46 -0000 Is disagree, having them hatched causes us less work not more, as others have said one update not many, which result in one outage of systems that need patching not many. Regards Steve On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 16:48, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Hi, Reference: > > From: Alan Somers > > Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 08:32:26 -0600 > > Alan Somers wrote: > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 8:26 AM Julian H. Stacey > wrote: > > > > > > Hi core@, > > > cc hackers@ & stable@ > > > > > > PR headline : "FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins." > > > > > > > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2019-May/date.html > > > > > > Volunteers who contribute actual fixes are very much appreciated; > > > But those styled as 'management' who delay announcements to batch > floods > > > damage us. As they've previously refused to stop, it's time to sack > them. > > > > > > Just send each announcement out when ready, no delays to batch them. > > > No sys admins can deal with 8 in 3 mins: > > > Especially on multiple systems & releases. Recipients start > > > mitigating, then more flood in, & need review which are > > > most urgent to interrupt to; While also avoiding sudden upgrades > > > to many servers & releases, to minimise disturbing server users, > > > bosses & customers. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Julian > > > -- > > > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich > Aachen Kent > > > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in > EU. > > > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > > > > I disagree, Julian. I think SAs are easier to deal with when they're > > batched. True, I can't fix the first one in less than 3 minutes. But > > then I probably wouldn't even notice it that fast. Batching them all > > together means fewer updates and reboots. > > Batching also means some of these vulnerabilities could have been > fixed earlier & less of a surge of demand on recipient admins time. > > An admin can find time to ameliorate 1 bug, not 8 suddenly together. > Avoidance is called planning ahead. Giving warning of a workload. > Like an admin plans ahead & announces an outage schedule for planned > upgrade. > > Suddenly dumping 8 on admins causes overload on admin manpower. > 8 reason for users to approach admin in parallel & say > "FreeBSD seems riddled, how long will all the sudden unplanned > outages take ? Should we just dump it ?" > Dont want negative PR & lack of management. > > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen > Kent > http://stolenvotes.uk Brexit ref. stole votes from 700,000 Brits in EU. > Lies bought; Groups fined; 1.9 M young had no vote, 1.3 M old leavers > died. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >