From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Wed Sep 23 03:01:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18C13EAD0B; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:01:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bx2yS5wWzz49Y6; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:01:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qk1-f179.google.com (mail-qk1-f179.google.com [209.85.222.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A458521848; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:01:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qk1-f179.google.com with SMTP id q5so21520963qkc.2; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 20:01:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533pHxlRpjArI8U9EKg7ddvjs6amq4OFvNJ9T42cFKorH+X75dRz Qvl09s5y0q4sUmC7fyIo3SbmLojljg1tgATBHtc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx5nPlvL8Ubuy1maw2fhyDWJVdKvgNgMmb1L6fIH3K5pByKYrPdFMqrxMykqPUcp3WjrUp1l4D4Mtv3jh1aiq8= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a189:: with SMTP id k131mr7804891qke.34.1600830112263; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 20:01:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009112049.08BKnavL032212@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 22:01:40 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r365643 - head/bin/cp To: Alan Somers Cc: Warner Losh , Kyle Evans , Ian Lepore , Mateusz Guzik , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:01:53 -0000 Correct- we're good now. Thanks! On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 9:59 PM Alan Somers wrote: > > Go ahead and commit. Consider it reviewed by me. And if I understand co= rrectly, this commit means there's no need for a special updating procedure= , right? > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 6:55 PM Warner Losh wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:17 PM Kyle Evans wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 17:02 Warner Losh wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 3:55 PM Kyle Evans wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 4:53 PM Ian Lepore wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, 2020-09-22 at 15:50 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >>>>> > > I think it's a great leap sideways, but I've done cp /dev/null fo= o to >>>>> > > clear >>>>> > > it out for 35 years now... It's why it feels like a workaround. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Though it is a legit optimization, no matter the feelings. As for >>>>> > > clearer, >>>>> > > I'm less sure since then I have to remember what the : operator d= oes. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Warner >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > For me, :> is idiomatic (but ugly). >>>>> > >>>>> > On the other hand, the cp /dev/null had a nice dogfooding aspect to >>>>> > it... when we broke cp by accident, its use in the build system was= the >>>>> > first alarm to go off. >>>>> > >>>>> > --Ian >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> To be honest, this is a case that really should be covered by >>>>> regression tests somewhere. >>>> >>>> >>>> It should (but isn't yet). >>>> >>>> Ian is right for old-school FreeBSD thinking. In that thinking the bui= ld system should use an eclectic mix of tools to act as a fire-wall against= accidental breakage. >>>> >>>> Complete, effective, test suites give much better coverage... if they = are run... >>>> >>>> So until we run tests frequently, with loud regression squawking that'= s as effective as build breakage, I tend to fall in the 'all of the above' = camp until that's in place... :) >>>> >>>> Warner >>>> >>>> P.S. though not, if I suppose, if it means that we're slowing down the= regression coverage uptake... >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> The test build was fine, please confirm if I can commit it or if someon= e else would like to write the UPDATING notice or start bootstrapping cp on= systems that were affected. I'm not comfortable with not taking any path a= t all here, but this is a lot of friction for a small mechanical change to = ease the pain. >> >> >> Sorry if I wasn't clear: I'm not objecting to the quick mechanical chang= e so much as complaining that I wish we had better test coverage. Don't let= that stop you from doing what's right (or I can if you'd like). >> >> Warner