From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 22 19:21:38 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1ACDB9AAE for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:21:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8559486BE0 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:21:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: OHkm6jgVM1n77R._ZJ9DyFK0zBX1eWzdm_7p02fTW4L3fyoIVGauBsQDP8h.Rxc bDKPX6eUQ7momSpn7X7NlS3Q3LuV.NOEnfYLLRUA2Ei5U0i4cb4tAynHvVgE6W7n5eTRAu.pm4Tc _4HTefCx1q1YWme3d3XCogXV49PctjbRwM1A6SZwu0cYPbNlIclBSiit_LKfcQCraNmg2vAzH9.v qQuvDHJVprYy0H0SxPBjVTiE7AaAJW2MMRZuEza4UM0.XSNNQLVKGOmfsIb6VdaKrtoZ8DNUm8sA zbyx4T3PQhrdNos_iwlLzIKK6L337Z2VBpFKCP1g4vD8hZANzWIYBYvpKuHn1SQeMmI.PQIB.oFH SCYXjahAlCMoZpWX.BOBc6FLwwdw0WQd9vwzXcfXwdUU3oLs0tnFczaKM437HNtvQRz.kxPcREB0 3LeTGY7tRlvvfKMVAaYu.7CLz3IVPEqtjeAjZnJgUcw8VmSWlDayY5gTF__TWCn6nahC6Fvxq_IS shzrqqvioGpXZU992Q961VPgyIb__ysors3SGvz6OFUmr39eQMuseJsA3J1HkvDz_wph31rb.rVN JRBBkpxyXWnXV._5K6TaONvDjgG1oSiyfUpqhPXQRDgzofEhjFzT_nuDoezdvJbVIzo32lPP7oUR li6z_qF.qV85PMYU4WhLnHge7ps6qzqdcHRhhHreLOD9ACUJKFCWTbw2pygS4vL7AfV.wc294q8S dyLXPMbjHUddcMl8VpDPW11r0xKZae1rQEzm9mj_HoU.bztX10ViGpOUMgCCGI5lyalPhdmFsj6S OzpXKt5KKx0NGAy4oGUtGlGOqYDRhpaJDaR4ey5ExnAZP5qW2Cg14XbmCYvSXrDBeoZ9rh8QP0UO G8W4L_3yrtVSEhPDm.jTr0DgskQZ6jfFGCi51JrM5VBkhp0WYRc9M31cG0o2yS.Id0M2wuWBQU8n V1zZxKD89k1WBMInqdX5NuUfMnnMd3mh3DAvTm7psJppvDFkQ594npPLjk5xcgqoD9EJF8TOE352 6l66v5oj1x_aZpe4uFI0YY4q5e9sc_zKfLiW904TpfvReh5kIy5a965MesIrGEDNKmh6SX_a5NxH IFBVB9EjVuDHhUIgShaYrE1_adeN_YitcqkQSuKdX177kJF4Pb.lkyvpPnO9LXh.kaDdPYmD5YzJ 7mmG9KHyN4A.dFCahUd6jSMhiPsztFmzAOuYshb97hsX2PLrHDCHp1I71IOhqFeEz4k0Rjwn1sz_ tz3Oi46jfV0_ULzOtbt8T1WrSRWnD79fzhA3zgH2_pLZY Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:21:31 +0000 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:01:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Paul Pathiakis To: Aryeh Friedman , Robert Huff Cc: David Christensen , FreeBSD Mailing List Message-ID: <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13991 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8559486BE0 X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.58 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mta6.am0.yahoodns.net]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.987,0]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.998,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.997,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[147.190.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; IP_SCORE(1.61)[ip: (5.81), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.27), asn: 36646(1.02), country: US(-0.05)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:21:39 -0000 =20 On Monday, July 22, 2019, 2:01:25 PM EDT, Robert Huff wrote: =20 =20 =20 Aryeh Friedman writes: >=C2=A0 > You need an uninterruptible power supply (UPS): >=C2=A0 > >=C2=A0 > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply >=C2=A0=20 >=C2=A0 Already on my shopping list but half the problem is the machine is >=C2=A0 a name HP and looking at the specs I have likely put more demand on >=C2=A0 the power supply then I can supply if there any drop in voltage. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I'd be interested to hear how you do this ... but assumi= ng it's true your solution has two parts: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1) the UPS to deal with the "power hiccups".=C2=A0 Befor= e you buy, check ports/sysutils to see what models are covered by available software. =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2) a more vigorous internal power supply.=C2=A0 I have n= o idea if it's even possible to upgrade HP products short of having HP do it (and maybe not even then). =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Respectfully, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Robert Huff ## Adding to this.... If this is more than just a low end server, you may want to buy a UPS with = a pure sine wave vs a simulated sine wave.=C2=A0 They are=C2=A0 a little mo= re expensive, but tend to be better in controlling spikes/dirty power. As for a new desktop, if you're reasonably inclined, build your own.=C2=A0 = At this point in time, steer clear of Intel and look at AMD's products. The= ir new Ryzen 3000 series kicks butt and is about 50-75% of the cost.=C2=A0 = Go with an X570 motherboard (it has PCIe 4.0) and an AM4 socket. The compat= ibility with the AM4 socket looks to be good for about 3-4 years vs intel's= "new cpu new socket -> new motherboard" mentality.=C2=A0 Depending on your= graphics needs either a separate card that can be upgraded or go with the = new AMD Ryzen/Navi APUs with the graphics in the chip... (low end but good = for word processing, etc NOT gaming - separate card if you game).=C2=A0 Wit= h the new AM4 socket the APUs are an inexpensive alternative to buying sepa= rate graphics and CPU and when you go beyond the abilities on either just b= uy the latest APU. Typically, the new Ryzen chips also consume about 1/3 less power too. So, for about $500 you can buy a SERIOUS powered machine with an upgrade pa= th versus being locked into a canned vendor like Dell or HP. Good luck, P. _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " =20 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Jul 22 19:26:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DD9BA026 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:26:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBE4087199 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:26:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id z3so76556272iog.0 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:26:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hL+efFxys3ZVvlF4vcfhMM0wstebkWxNs5UoYHMx6Ng=; b=O1/57k9geCUIBbIH8DmLADPishv+ej71xeCH9AyQru3/DPyHDaeBPSltC43BjHjSoA 2llRZk/Ku2IfSjfyBCyk+K9MY1X32HmV0JeyHtyNufMWuElr4Usar9kR+ob3hCmG0kYx aMfRat1LM30U/frtOevbarlE2Qazo3OKfXuZgtS/m2Z5N2rD38XevR7zkMUL9LFYFBLT KOSRLrtuhJTg0OP1Q2rAVlFrnmmOY0UPBbgjjqLmVbyeIh7d7YEMhDGH8/ghogEu1ViZ POsHGMAwbX94kRjgbKkL4LqP2wIwDgdCpojUAyPsd2Jq8hLSsOZjSE/o2RCHHZ0wS3c+ DaQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hL+efFxys3ZVvlF4vcfhMM0wstebkWxNs5UoYHMx6Ng=; b=ZiqQp0wlskK1R0NZAjUzX8/msMCUospd2L8q9f5H51n21o9XmaaqcD0niu1SJN0UQI Iy8/hB9fT1fRvj70SaWvVjs/o4Re3mFJw0+iNnvpnarN9ctBNpK3TuZYr1Iydv53s760 ujCTzAURb8J7mhWIMoKPM+qCWDYGa7InZtpyHxuIkUrWyH1WI+3jO8H8lRDiRA39ByOz /baBVfvMmv5raaYoAdY0b8qEy8X0zZhyZRXFFW83INdpe6v5ivjU5torq3DQ3xWuHz0H qhA61bWbPmPs1T3hyfyNbDxZGbW+5ehPaSkFo2RBdxBSVqueDYAxFq39npLL9OXGxjCz ZLgA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXIkK5MrW6NWXkZrhXviof9BWcckKmgZ7BvrBOwOaJ7dOVSEoot zPJq4hrx4QSaru2VhgQFDxhlskiSU6DClaox08I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyYsfQUczGX8B9hyVlSw6NlBlbsxamrNIs9KEg770GDw1xp77/1tFZuCsXa+DVdcfgK9rEXh1R5y2iaKo8C+Kw= X-Received: by 2002:a02:a183:: with SMTP id n3mr77484972jah.74.1563823586360; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:26:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5ceb24c1-66ce-2603-5eed-78283d9676b7@holgerdanske.com> <23861.63968.885139.970960@jerusalem.litteratus.org> <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1618173539.5511975.1563822072600@mail.yahoo.com> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:26:14 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Best hardware for a replacement desktop? To: Paul Pathiakis Cc: Robert Huff , David Christensen , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DBE4087199 X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=O1/57k9g; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.85 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.885,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; IP_SCORE(-2.95)[ip: (-9.16), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.11), asn: 15169(-2.43), country: US(-0.05)]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[d.2.d.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:26:27 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 3:01 PM Paul Pathiakis wrote: > > On Monday, July 22, 2019, 2:01:25 PM EDT, Robert Huff > wrote: > > > > Aryeh Friedman writes: > > > > You need an uninterruptible power supply (UPS): > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply > > > > Already on my shopping list but half the problem is the machine is > > a name HP and looking at the specs I have likely put more demand on > > the power supply then I can supply if there any drop in voltage. > > I'd be interested to hear how you do this ... but assuming it's > true your solution has two parts: > > 1) the UPS to deal with the "power hiccups". Before you buy, > check ports/sysutils to see what models are covered by available > software. > 2) a more vigorous internal power supply. I have no idea if it's > even possible to upgrade HP products short of having HP do it (and > maybe not even then). > > > Respectfully, > > > Robert Huff > > > > ## Adding to this.... > > If this is more than just a low end server, you may want to buy a UPS with > a pure sine wave vs a simulated sine wave. They are a little more > expensive, but tend to be better in controlling spikes/dirty power. > > As for a new desktop, if you're reasonably inclined, build your own. At > this point in time, steer clear of Intel and look at AMD's products. Their > new Ryzen 3000 series kicks butt and is about 50-75% of the cost. Go with > an X570 motherboard (it has PCIe 4.0) and an AM4 socket. The compatibility > with the AM4 socket looks to be good for about 3-4 years vs intel's "new > cpu new socket -> new motherboard" mentality. Depending on your graphics > needs either a separate card that can be upgraded or go with the new AMD > Ryzen/Navi APUs with the graphics in the chip... (low end but good for word > processing, etc NOT gaming - separate card if you game). With the new AM4 > socket the APUs are an inexpensive alternative to buying separate graphics > and CPU and when you go beyond the abilities on either just buy the latest > APU. > > Typically, the new Ryzen chips also consume about 1/3 less power too. > > So, for about $500 you can buy a SERIOUS powered machine with an upgrade > path versus being locked into a canned vendor like Dell or HP. > Here is what I have in mind so far (note I *REFUSE* to buy mail order/online so this is what is in my local MicroCenter): CPU (Ryzen 3600 $200.00 65 watts w/ fan): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=all&sortby=match&N=4294966995+4294819840+4294810797+4294819827+4294818783+4294815097&myStore=true Motherboard (x570 AMD 4 ATX $170): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=all&sortby=match&N=4294966996+4294810816+4294818900+4294818892+4294810798+4294817766+4294818045+4294818894+4294810687+4294815404+4294818877+4294815402+39&myStore=true Power supply (850 watt $130 ATX): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=all&sortby=match&N=4294966654+4294818900+795+4294817377+780+4294817027&myStore=true Case (minitower ATX $75): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=all&sortby=match&N=4294964318+4294821211+4294821002+4294811319+749+4294821195+4294821206+4294821207&myStore=true RAM (16 GB DDR4-3200 $70): https://www.microcenter.com/search/search_results.aspx?Ntk=all&sortby=match&N=4294966965+4294817445+4294820310+37&myStore=true Reuse keyboard/mouse/video card/monitor Total: $645 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org