From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jul 21 16:59:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDACB16A4CE for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.46]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9809543D5A for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:42 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from andrei@kableu.com) Received: from h-68-164-89-115.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net ([68.164.89.115] helo=root.kableu.com) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BnKRS-000411-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:59:42 -0700 Received: by root.kableu.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 84C4E5C69; Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:00:19 -0700 From: Andrew Konstantinov To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20040721170019.GA88303@root.kableu.com> References: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040721124345.GB99978@silverwraith.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Subject: Re: "Next Generation" kernel configuration? X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 16:59:42 -0000 --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jul 21, 2004 at 05:43:45AM -0700, Avleen Vig wrote: > On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 07:39:31PM -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > > Just musing on an idea here: > >=20 > > I've been thinking for a while now about trying to write a tool to make > > kernel configuration easier, sort of a "make config" (as in ports) for > > the kernel, similar to what's available on some of the Linux distros. >=20 > I've read over the other posts in this thread, but I cannot say I think > this is a good idea. In fact, I think it's a very bad idea, but with > very good intentions. Here's why.. >=20 > I'm a strong proponent of user education. The FreeBSD handbook is one of > the best education tools for someone who wants to use FreeBSD, right > from beginner to more advanced levels. >=20 > A "config tool", while useful for beginners, would quickly result is > those beginners not learning about building a kernel themselves, copying > GENERIC to `hostname -s | tr "[:lower:]" "[:upper:]"`, editing it, > learning what is in LINT, remembering to look through there, etc. > This process teaches users a lot about how a BSD kernel is configured, > what options are availible, and where to look for more options. >=20 > The end result would be more people building kernels themselves, but not > knowing what is actually happening, or what more is possible. It would > mean less educated users, and I don't think that is somewhere any > organization needs to go (look at what happened to the average Microsoft > user's IQ level, after people stopped using DOS and started having > machines do the work for them). >=20 > Like I said, I think your intentions are good, but I have concerns about > the suggested solution. I think such a tool would actually influence user education in a positive w= ay. Here is a sample scenario: 1) User starts this "program" to configure the kernel 2) User sees unknown to him option 3) User decides to look it up on www.google.com 4) "That's a nice feature, although I don't really need it" 5) GOTO 1 The only suggestion I have is to make it a third party program and not buil= d it into the make procedure for the kernel. It would look like pkg_tree that's located in ports, although with a better ncurses interface. Andrew --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFA/qEj5Jhyz2/cFigRAgc3AKC2Nw5cnKbaZm+boXY3yqywM5qkdQCfdm81 9/XhZq3vPnMT2uIc5q1a4Qw= =Kgno -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xHFwDpU9dbj6ez1V--