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Date:      Sat, 9 Nov 2002 11:18:13 +0000
From:      Doug Rabson <dfr@nlsystems.com>
To:        Daniel Eischen <eischen@pcnet1.pcnet.com>, "M. Warner Losh" <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        ataraxia@cox.net, current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: [PATCH] note the __sF change in src/UPDATING
Message-ID:  <200211091118.13041.dfr@nlsystems.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10211081806220.10745-100000@pcnet1.pcnet.com>
References:  <Pine.GSO.4.10.10211081806220.10745-100000@pcnet1.pcnet.com>

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On Friday 08 November 2002 11:13 pm, Daniel Eischen wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, M. Warner Losh wrote:
> > In message:
> > <Pine.GSO.4.10.10211081205020.27766-100000@pcnet1.pcnet.com>
> >
> >             Daniel Eischen <eischen@pcnet1.pcnet.com> writes:
> > : All the ports are going to be rebuilt for the release anyways,
> > : so this doesn't affect fresh installs, correct?  It is only a
> > : problem when mixing older 4.x and 5.0 libraries/binaries with
> > : __sF-free libc (if I understand things correctly).
> >
> > The problem is that you cannot have 4.x packages and 5.x packages
> > co-mingled on the same system.  that's what I'm trying to fix.=20
> > You'd have to rebuild the 4.x packages before they are fixed.
>
> I don't think this is a show-stopper.  Just recompile all your
> ports or use the pre-built 5.0 packages.
>
> > : This is 5.0; it is a major release and there will be some flies
> > : in the ointment.  I say bite the bullet now -- don't wait.
> > : If we want to provide an optional compatability hack to libc
> > : so that folks can compile it with __sF support, then I think
> > : that is better than leaving __sF in the release, perhaps
> > : with a mktemp(3)-like warning if possible (?).
> >
> > You'd need a run-time warning for this to be effective.  I'm not
> > sure that ld.so can do this right now.
>
> Could you put __sF in it's own file, and put the error in
> a .init section?  We don't care about static binaries, right?
> They shouldn't have a problem.
>
> > This is not a fly in the pointment, but rather a major
> > incompatibility that makes it impossible to have a reasonable mix.
>
> If it's really a hassle for folks, then just provide the
> optional compatability hack and make them rebuild libc.
> Or provide a pre-built version that doesn't get installed
> by default.

So what you are saying, basically, is that we should ship a release, for=20
the first time ever, which can't run old binaries. Sorry, that isn't=20
acceptable. The correct and robust way of doing things is to stop=20
creating binaries (in both 4.x and 5.x) that reference __sF, then wait=20
a full release cycle for the change to propagate. We can then remove=20
the symbol in 6.x.=20

In general, its a very poor idea to simply remove a feature that was=20
supported in the last release of a package. The normal route is to=20
deprecate (but still support) the feature in one release and remove it=20
in the next.

--=20
Doug Rabson=09=09=09=09Mail:  dfr@nlsystems.com
=09=09=09=09=09Phone: +44 20 8348 6160



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