From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Oct 27 20:58:06 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 133B216A46B for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xcllnt@mac.com) Received: from smtpoutm.mac.com (smtpoutm.mac.com [17.148.16.69]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F347413C4B5 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xcllnt@mac.com) Received: from mac.com (asmtp004-s [10.150.69.67]) by smtpoutm.mac.com (Xserve/smtpout006/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l9RKw3cc005833; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.24.104.109] (natint3.juniper.net [66.129.224.36]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/asmtp004/MantshX 4.0) with ESMTP id l9RKw1bV020900 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:58:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20071027194017.AF8594500E@ptavv.es.net> References: <20071027194017.AF8594500E@ptavv.es.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marcel Moolenaar Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:57:25 -0700 To: Kevin Oberman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) Cc: John-Mark Gurney , current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New-bus unit wiring via hints.. X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:58:06 -0000 On Oct 27, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: >> I'm not mandating anything. I'm merely pointing out how >> reality has changed and that it's important to adapt, >> adopt and improve... > > "Reality has changed"? Yes, it has, at least a bit, but not to the > point where we want to confuse serial ports. Are you saying that "we" should accept reality's change only for as far as it doesn't confuse "us" ??? > If I update my BIOS, the port marked '1' on the back of my system > should > not abruptly change from sio0 to sio1. Agreed. > In my case, I am only talking to a data logger and not actually > controlling something, but I should not have to worry about having > a port > name change or finding that _UID1 was no longer the same device if I > move to a new mother board. That's unrealistic. If you change the underlying hardware configuration you cannot expect that it doesn't have some sort of effect on the system. Wiring is about making that effect as small as possible, not about having FreeBSD do its own thing with disregard of the hardware. > (Yes, I had been working with computers for several years > before then and I suspect many of the others in this discussion had > been, too.) Please don't break it! Talk about POLA! I'm very much insensitive to people arguing with nothing more than how things used to be in the distant past. It only means they have been standing still for as long as that and have become inflexible and intolerant. Having those people use POLA is a joke because it's really their own POLA that's at stake and given that it's coming from someone who isn't living in the present, really means very very little looking forward. I've argued that hints isn't the right tool to achieve wiring. Keep the discussion on topic. -- Marcel Moolenaar marcelm@juniper.net