From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Wed Jul 24 23:26:09 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B29BC4EE for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 23:26:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x331.google.com (mail-ot1-x331.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::331]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7A19837D6 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 23:26:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mozolevsky@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x331.google.com with SMTP id j11so25429604otp.10 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=X0gcOMJ4Ecnsifiw/594pNRcMiy9mZDyOJ1VSUPLy9A=; b=Bw5efnlmQR3oVt0oIhYlKBksSnkwF9CkT3Jt8V6U8I/n9eqCCsOknFpRgKu0TPZIyw ilVUgU/V2VYT5F+iAUE+2vlSd33PiMUq7PPi0DGVU0UDtLXBaxmmpwG3q5A3QZGdC4fq tqsV5h6OQW6sQzQXJQSuoCV9cdhbjuphf8qJvDx8OsrOBRQiEDNEKIiEZgNZPdytQFah QPAv8uWHw25enByMefRrUHM7Dcs+JXZN0UCo/yuxnNX0AL7uWym9uPuKfROXBXGjsuXP WdAGPR3wAvC5FXeaH6v7aAb/7GzforWMlOYYBNHQ2gTdc088Fc7mxpsCkEcz4mEIMR2W WB6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=X0gcOMJ4Ecnsifiw/594pNRcMiy9mZDyOJ1VSUPLy9A=; b=ZdSxnSMtEKPiINcGuL0XOoAOHbhTmHE2jefXD/iu+iRFTX4P9QYhHUPVFMpnoeNWTz 9ZxI70FFqZNfvjXe9DOwv/ipo3qiSU4KGLfS6R7hpJ2fGUuoe8iagRI3AcPatLsGsDDC Oy4eye6M4FidAyg7SD4DQC67humiktM2VhF2rm5b8r7qzk4R4jX18Mu7RMigLAI0PROA RPDN/Y8qEq8+0sPIVk4z8PBpW2TziW29UaHs5R33I+aKzO6Dz1iUBwl8XUCmiZgQ59wO qvF6VGcO3SRS8OhPvwDJU2Wc0+77Rv/tw0niA1OYA6aQ+L1odC7DlWVuArOHx7SWBzGt sEfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVP06aeK/vRJpXyTeiF7eY64A+8hZ+M9LySTGEaQ4Yap59Npu5t c5ArWNA/jvRNlyvju4MCDPu9XgnZSjq6bebcfvCbNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqw80sELQJ9v+DG4NkGEY1eJydUwFabLa9C6A7T9XKnm3JeBtUTP16RGY3p14BGfl2bu4P2RZt0KBg0ANt5BIwc= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:30c3:: with SMTP id r3mr60554805otg.141.1564010767003; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:26:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Igor Mozolevsky Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:25:30 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Old Stuff To: Robert Simmons Cc: "Aaron C. de Bruyn" , freebsd security , Luke Crooks Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D7A19837D6 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Bw5efnlm; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mozolevsky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::331 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mozolevsky@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.87 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.987,0]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-security@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(-2.87)[ip: (-8.77), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-3.09), asn: 15169(-2.43), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 23:26:09 -0000 On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 20:09, Robert Simmons wrote: > > Yes, to reduce the code base complexity so that resources can be focused on > a smaller code base. > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 3:06 PM Aaron C. de Bruyn > wrote: > > > Ubuntu made the decision, then rolled it back (partially) due to community > > outcry. (https://itsfoss.com/ubuntu-19-10-drops-32-bit-support/) > > If your reason for wanting to drop support is "Ubuntu is doing it", my > > response would be "cool story bro". > > Can you state what you are trying to accomplish by dropping support so the > > merits can be debated? > > > > -A Please don't top post, makes replying in context a major PITA! Optimise resource allocation for the code base by writing better code, not by dropping functional parts---code should be simple so as to make errors obvious, and yes, that includes proper design comments in the code too (compare solaris code when that was released to _even current_ FreeBSD code---developers in the former went through painstaking process to explain even the "obvious" things in *plain English,* where as with most FOSS the approach is "well, duh!!! it's obvious why bother writing up???" and the answer is: "it might be obvious now, but (a) how do I know the code reflects the coder's intent, (b) that intent was correct in the first place, and (c) how much do you have to re-learn when you come back to the code in a month, or a year (and I'm not even talking about someone else trying to figure out what the code does when the coder `disappears')?") The short of it is---write quality code, not look for things to trim, if you want better quality software. We had similar discussion already when Rust was being discussed a while back, and one of the "big" reasons was "better," yet it's demonstrably equally easy to write crappy code in the latter. -- Igor M.