From owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sun Apr 4 23:25:54 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C76E95B9FE9 for ; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:25:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dch@skunkwerks.at) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD8zj62NZz4dcC; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 23:25:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dch@skunkwerks.at) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6C725C009D; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap6 ([10.202.2.56]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 04 Apr 2021 19:25:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=skunkwerks.at; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :cc:subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=HEt7sSF9a+kqHKoSQswY5PH+4v8O 4456fJ04EjZi4S0=; b=CRy/nLP+KBOKXoc+UC1OpF0tVr6KVwWVcCbvKalgafX9 8RUEIFxrCbDFZDzDdORx1xL4B8BdzeDTMJRnbS4zqyKCAOZPSPVu5L50S+43sJwz OzpQR5KzpEprVwPVIzrxRPCodd5bv4fDhgY1db/i4GR8r1l5f+4uCz0A09hFNcnj 1miVFQxjOhZYbSun6IJ3lRZutXN1O5n3LM7+xi8kyNA86Z5IeU/fcC6rtSxSSLOo h49xUf6Yk4Kif2BtHNrrt9zwS4x7PTRsdoIzblj5AgItu4ga+/LQIj9uLUb9RwqK AhHkWqryDKAsmeWx3bxDgb6YZTlWSot8DIc/ZOHhsg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=HEt7sS F9a+kqHKoSQswY5PH+4v8O4456fJ04EjZi4S0=; b=B97wUOGOfRvOSmcRSyfYHE mkoO6/j9qegWuscThlLg8n0PJ+mgEr0DF4w4a+X7k3MdXRHQMPP2oq4L7E8oNCQp +rqPMop81VLRXeW/8F00Tue0HNPgSEJ8Y3i7unKSkbyZU4F6CzzPZ9sJMLCCnVrF cIavdT359rI5Ua6tA4IZOacMhWCizQzm2UKze008FY8LE0MZx/q3irMHA7JPHQqp ivGV8lIkDZBulcd7zO0iOWOLbE0fMDN9bZRJa8Lufia6We/fT0TPivLifYVFxVux GPP3JLiVkD1tvVU+J9K0XF/CiSc78dQJb/vO+Pw3NVKWI+flPNc+D/0uWGfMnpCw == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrudejuddgvdduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtredtreertdenucfhrhhomhepfdffrghv vgcuvehothhtlhgvhhhusggvrhdfuceouggthhesshhkuhhnkhifvghrkhhsrdgrtheqne cuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdetleejhfevteeigeefgeegteejieffudefvdeivdfgteei hefguefggffhkeehnecuffhomhgrihhnpehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsth gvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepuggthhesshhkuhhnkhif vghrkhhsrdgrth X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0DC7A2402DE; Sun, 4 Apr 2021 19:25:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-273-g8500d2492d-fm-20210323.002-g8500d249 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> References: <0070fa8d-1e9c-89c7-f0a8-40aace3030d8@quip.cz> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 23:25:29 +0000 From: "Dave Cottlehuber" To: "FreeBSD Stable" Cc: "Ed Maste" Subject: Re: Deprecating base system ftpd? Content-Type: text/plain X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4FD8zj62NZz4dcC X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=skunkwerks.at header.s=fm2 header.b=CRy/nLP+; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=B97wUOGO; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dch@skunkwerks.at designates 66.111.4.27 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dch@skunkwerks.at X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.59 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.27]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[skunkwerks.at:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.27:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[skunkwerks.at:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[dch]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[skunkwerks.at]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[66.111.4.27:from]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable]; MID_RHS_WWW(0.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2021 23:25:54 -0000 > On 03/04/2021 22:39, Ed Maste wrote: > > I propose deprecating the ftpd currently included in the base system > > before FreeBSD 14, and opened review D26447 > > (https://reviews.freebsd.org/D26447) to add a notice to the man page. > > I had originally planned to try to do this before 13.0, but it dropped > > off my list. FTP is not nearly as relevant now as it once was, and it > > had a security vulnerability that secteam had to address. > > > > I'm happy to make a port for it if anyone needs it. Comments? +1 for port. I suspect I last used an FTPd in anger sometime in late 90s, and I surmise this is the vast majority. We will have a very small # of users who require FTPd at all, to make their systems useful. An even smaller # of those users will be unable to use FreeBSD if FTPd is only available in a pkg. For those objecting, are you *really* in that latter category -- are these boxes running without a single port/package installed? When 13.0 goes EOL, somewhere after 2025, will you *still* need ftpd in 14.0 base? It seems a reasonable delay, even for a large corporate, to accommodate this change, which can be done in less time than reading this email. Ian's point about preserving paths is a reasonable one, but I had to add an ntpd user in last updates, this would be less difficult. Eugene mentioned the convenience of ftpd in the same sentence as ipsec. I'm willing to bet those systems have ports installed too. If speed is an issue, HTTP supports pipelining, compression, chunked encoding, & parallel connections. I'm not sure ftpd is even in the same game anymore. The more code we hang onto in base, the larger the millstone around our necks when moving forwards. Each individual opportunity to slim down base *in itself* is not significant, but cumulatively they represent gridlock. For each removal or deprecation, please consider, is this worth holding the project back for? # /etc/src.conf WITHOUT_CRUFT=yes A+ Dave