From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Jan 25 22:22:32 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D082714C524C; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 22:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.138]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40FE975FE3; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 22:22:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id n9riglC8jnBo4n9rjg0s3r; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 15:22:24 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=J8fUEzvS c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=mi56gJdQAAAA:8 a=kMf0utG4AAAA:8 a=DWcrCl8ovvt4EDlSRm8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=of2mfszF-hMA:10 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=m6W23KLcDyq3lIHOBnQi:22 a=TTWE1O2ssfbasxdXZsrT:22 Received: from android-68f84e02b5988183.esitwifi.local (S0106788a207e2972.gv.shawcable.net [70.66.154.233]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64D9F1195; Fri, 25 Jan 2019 14:22:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 14:21:58 -0800 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <42367007-C290-42C9-9F44-2A8F48665E7C@FreeBSD.org> References: <201901252129.x0PLTQAn008365@slippy.cwsent.com> <42367007-C290-42C9-9F44-2A8F48665E7C@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Importing mksh in base To: Baptiste Daroussin CC: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org,arch@freebsd.org From: Cy Schubert Message-ID: <5D1014CC-5CFB-435C-890D-33F9EB0B5245@cschubert.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfHi2JrYyGwtlQPQZvEtqTKd8eCCaK/YhzZUgJrsUp54+PR5S9E+ujIO9B1Q+9IgxpQRWpoEcV1RGcun3jZHZFhiY+gMXtMidryazlOptoBuwA6rjV4q2 ICgcavTFmBJ3uui1ZV5e6m1c2Jlxy5fjdIEqapJgii+A/QcUhjL8EJYV2CGB0tu9TeAe2gC/gvaROQHNrjxEdxCPwQtgukC6aosLyuOIriJPY0me0Yj0B4hn ZCOkCs4GEWtXMH6mQr0/vw== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 40FE975FE3 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.968,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2019 22:22:32 -0000 On January 25, 2019 1:39:47 PM PST, Baptiste Daroussin = wrote: > > >Le 25 janvier 2019 22:29:26 GMT+01:00, Cy Schubert > a =C3=A9crit : >>In message <20190125210346=2Exzvrvuvr4rj3guov@ivaldir=2Enet>, Baptiste= =20 >>Daroussin wr >>ites: >>>=20 >>> >>> --l7d7rf235ll3lmav >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1 >>> Content-Disposition: inline >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:24:26AM -0800, Cy Schubert wrote: >>> > First time I've tried replying inline on this newer phone=2E Bear >>with me a=3D >>> s this reply may not look like I intend it to=2E >>> >=3D20 >>> > On January 25, 2019 11:07:55 AM PST, Baptiste Daroussin >>>> > wrote: >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >Le 25 janvier 2019 18:12:58 GMT+01:00, Cy Schubert >>> > > a =3DE9crit : >>> > >>On January 25, 2019 8:57:51 AM PST, Baptiste Daroussin >>> > >> wrote: >>> > >>>Hi everyone, >>> > >>> >>> > >>>I would like to import mksh in base, >>https://www=2Emirbsd=2Eorg/mksh=2Ehtm >>> > >>>And make it the default root shell (not necessary in one step) >>> > >>> >>> > >>>Why: >>> > >>>1/ it is tiny 400k (in the packaged version) all other shells >>fitting >>> > >>>the >>> > >>>expectation are bigger >>> > >>>2/ it's default frontend in interactive mode is very close to >>what >>> > >>most >>> > >>>people >>> > >>>are used to with bash and shells as default root shell on other >>BSD >>> > >>and >>> > >>>most >>> > >>>linuxes >>> > >>>3/ from my narrow window csh as a default root shell is one of >>the >>> > >>>major >>> > >>>complaint (usually the first thing a user get faced to) from >new >>> > >>comers >>> > >>>and >>> > >>>also for some long timers who are reinstalling a machine and >>have not >>> > >>>yet >>> > >>>installed/configured a bourne compatible shell >>> > >>> >>> > >>>What this proposal is _NOT_ about: >>> > >>>1/ the removal of tcsh from base >>> > >>>2/ any kid of denial of the quality and interest or features of >>csh >>> > >>> >>> > >>>What do you think? >>> > >>>Best regards, >>> > >>>Bapt >>> > >> >>> > >>Why not ksh93 instead? It is the original and authoritative Korn >>> > >shell=2E >>> > >>EPL is compatible with the BSD license=2E Personally, I've been >>toying >>> > >>with the idea of importing ksh93 for a while now=2E >>> > >> >>> > > >>> > >The reason I chose mksh is because it is heavily maintained and >>from >>> > >the testing I have done it was the "nicer" interface >>> > > >>> >=3D20 >>> > Ksh93 is also heavily maintained=2E Look at their github activity= =2E >>My ksh9=3D >>> 3-devel port has been tracking updates (I consider important)=2E >>> >>> I gave a chance to ksh93-devel, my first impression are the >>following, as an >>> interactive shell, it looks nicer than I remembered (still prefer >>mksh thou=3D >>> gh) >> >>Interactively ksh93's command completion listing looks unconventional=20 >>but it functions the same=2E >> >>However programmatically it's the standard=2E Large commercial vendors,= =20 >>like Oracle, still require ksh for its array handling among other=20 >>things=2E >> >>> the completion looks "unexpected" but interesting I bet that can >>probably be >>> tuned (having a numbered list with fullpath of application I can do >>complet=3D >>> ion >>> on is not what I did expect) >> >>Completion is different=2E >> >>> >>> In emacs mode, the history search does not look great, (not it does >>not look >>> great as well in mksh, but less worse :)) >>> >>> In vi mode both seem to behave the same >>> >>> Manpages in both sides looks pretty complete >>> >>> mksh only depends on libc while ksh93 depends on libc, libexecinfo >>and libm >>> >>> on amd64: >>> ksh93 is 1=2E2M >>> mksh is 331k >> >>It has that advantage=2E For embedded this is an advantage=2E However if= =20 >>embedded is using ksh as a scripting language mksh and pdksh aren't=20 >>100% compatible=2E Just so we know, It's interactive only and people=20 >>would be well advised to install the port if doing any serious shell=20 >>scripting=2E >> >>I think the size difference doesn't make up for the differences in=20 >>scripting capability=2E (Yes, you can do arrays in bash but the syntax >is >> >>different=2E) It really depends on what we want here=2E A full featured= =20 >>shell that can be used for ksh93 scripts or strictly as an interactive > >>shell with incomplete support of the ksh88 standard=2E >> >>> >>> Overall I still think mksh is a better choice there >> >>Though I still disagree, a knob to disable it, WITHOUT_MKSH, would be >a >> >>must as those who symlink to /usr/bin/ksh or /bin/ksh would be=20 >>affected=2E And, > > >The goal of the import is not about providing a new scripting shell but >an interactive which closer to csh to what seems basic default >expectation of most (which still needs to be validated as such) > >I didn t intent to add it as /bin/ksh but as /bin/mksh > >Best regards >Bapt That's fine=2E Juxtaposed, one of the ports, pdksh, installs itself as ksh=2E A totally s= eparate issue, it should install as pdksh=2E Then either a metaport or a bi= t of logic in /usr/ports/Mk adds the symlink=2E Or, leave it to the user to= create manually=2E I haven't had the time to really look at this except to= acknowledge it's a problem=2E --=20 Pardon the typos and autocorrect, small keyboard in use=2E Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www=2EFreeBSD=2Eorg The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few=2E