From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 6 10:04:32 1997 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19342 for chat-outgoing; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (slip139-92-4-122.mu.de.ibm.net [139.92.4.122]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19327; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 10:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from vector.jhs.no_domain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vector.jhs.no_domain (8.7.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA03918; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:08:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199702061708.SAA03918@vector.jhs.no_domain> To: Karl Denninger cc: jkh@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Blacklisting and being "asked" to deinstall FreeBSD - you heard that right! From: "Julian H. Stacey" Reply-To: "Julian H. Stacey" X-Organization: Vector Systems Ltd. X-Mailer: EXMH 1.6.7, PGP available X-Address: Holz Strasse 27d, 80469 Munich, Germany X-Tel: +49.89.268616 X-Fax: +49.89.2608126 X-ISDN: +49.89.26023276 X-Web: http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/ In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 05 Feb 1997 17:23:04 CST." <199702052323.RAA18464@Jupiter.Mcs.Net> Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:08:08 +0100 Sender: owner-chat@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi Karl, CC Jordan & chat@ I'm not happy about your cross posting, so this is reduced to chat@ ... Security is not worth reading about, for the majority of current@ & hackers@ subscribers, let alone the bulk of CD purchasers ! Proof: `echo who security | mail majordomo@freebsd.org` | wc Repeat with current & hackers, & number of CDs sold. This may be heresy for you as an ISV, or for most of us as responsible programmers ... but it's hard to refute numbers ! Not many people think it worth their time to read the security list ! A CD vendor such as WC Inc (`Our Sponsor' ;-) would probably not take kindly to delaying sales accruing to a forthcoming release, for a security problem, as all release delays cost WC Inc. money in number of CDs sold per year. FreeBSD is Not a USA timezone operation, it is a world wide operation that needs time to respond. Cancelling & recalling any release would be something I guess many in core & maybe wider would want time to consider, whenever mooted, Time means 24 hours to cover all timezones + more time to discuss. It's not suprising your demand for a recall of a release within hours was not exactly greeted with open arms: - Security isn't very important to `our' (not `your') market (see 'domo ;-) - Delaying Releases costs WC money. - FreeBSD big decisions take more than 24 hours. Calling for a release to be pulled within hours instead of days, does not fit FreeBSD. An ISV wanting fast local timezone action, does have the option of _Buying_ a BSD maintenance contract, from the nearest FreeBSD commercial consultants, try http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/freebsd/consultants.html (Yes I am on that list, No I'm _not_ trying to attract your clientel :-) or _Buying_ support from BSDI, or _Paying_ Lemis for Linux support etc. If you stay with FreeBSD, please file your diffs using send-pr (through a nom-de-plume if you want, if you reckon they'll have a better chance after the recent fire storm ;-), By all means publish diffs in web space too if you want, (I do that, for stuff I haven't got round to submitting, or others haven't got round to committing, for instance I maintain src/ & ports/ shaped diff trees indexed from http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/src/src.html ) But Please do not set up Yet_Another_BSD. I deplore your threat to start a 4th BSD to add to FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, BSDI, Linux, SCO (Server & Unixware), & all the other Unixes. I wish you Zero Success for a 4th BSD: do not give the MS-Win & NT mob reason to further criticise our fractured Unix market segment. Julian -- Julian H. Stacey jhs@freebsd.org http://www.freebsd.org/~jhs/