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Date:      Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:42:33 -0400
From:      Stephan Uphoff <ups@tree.com>
To:        Julian Elischer <julian@elischer.org>
Cc:        "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: scheduler (sched_4bsd) questions
Message-ID:  <1095529353.31297.1192.camel@palm.tree.com>
In-Reply-To: <414B8D5E.7000700@elischer.org>
References:  <1095468747.31297.241.camel@palm.tree.com> <414B8D5E.7000700@elischer.org>

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On Fri, 2004-09-17 at 21:20, Julian Elischer wrote:
> Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> >
> >If this is true kernel threads can be preempted while holding
> >for example the root vnode lock (or other important kernel
> >resources) while not getting a chance to run until there are no more
> >user processes with better priority. 
> >
> 
> This is also true,  though it is a slightly more complicated thing than 
> that.
> Preempting threads are usually interrupt threads and are thus usually 
> short lived,.

But interrupt threads often wake up other threads ... 

> 
> 
> The theory is however that as long as the CPU is doing something, teh 
> throughput is
> still being maintianed. 

Mhhh .. yes - I guess the only problem is with pathetic cases. ( Tons of
cpu bound threads and nice values that prevent the preempted thread to
gain a better priority)

> (For this reason we  have not worked on the 
> problem you mention yet, though
> it will eventually get to the top of someone's list :-)

Great

> >
> >I am also stomped by the special case of adding a thread X with better
> >priority than the current thread to the runqueue if they belong to the
> >same ksegroup. In this case both kg_last_assigned and kg_avail_opennings
> >might be zero and setrunqueue() will not call sched_add().
> >Because of this it looks like the current thread will neither be
> >preempted not will TDF_NEEDRESCHED be set to force rescheduling at the
> >kernel boundary.
> >This situation should resolve itself at the next sched_switch - however
> >this might take a long time. (Especially if essential interrupt threads
> >are blocked by mutexes held by thread X)
> >
> 
> you are correct. I am not yet  preempting a running thread with a lesser 
> priority if they are siblings
> (unless there is a slot available) Thsi is not becasue I don't want to 
> do it, but simply because it has not been done yet..
> we did have NO preemption, so having "some" preemption is still better 
> than where we were.
>  Special case code to check curthread for a preemption could be done but 
> at the moment  the decision code for
> whether to preempt or not is in maybe_preempt() and I don't want  to 
> duplicate that. it is on th edrawing board though.
> The other thing is, that even if we should be able to preempt a running 
> thread, there is no guarantee that it is on THIS
> CPU.  It may be on another CPU and that gets nasty in a hurry.

Yes .. this could get nasty.
This happens when the thread is bound to another cpu or someone changed
thr_concurrency - otherwise the current thread must be a sibling right ?

Maybe something brutal like:
	if ((curthread->td_ksegrp == kg) &&
	   (td->td_priority > curthread->td_priority))
		curthread->td_flags |= TDF_NEEDRESCHED;

in setrunqueue for 
the else case of "if (kg->kg_avail_opennings > 0)"
would do the trick (without preemption) for the easy but probably more
common cases?

Maybe I can find some time next week to think about a clean
fix. I find it always helpful having a small task in mind while reading
source code.

> >PS: I am impressed how clean and easy to read the scheduler sources are.
> >    Looks like a lot of hard work went into this.
> >
> 
> There is a lot to clean up yet..

But there is a huge difference between thinking about a little vacuuming
and wishing for some bulldozers ;-) 

> what version are you reading? -current?
current  (Sep 16)

Thanks for the detailed answer.

	Stephan




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