From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Fri Nov 20 16:28:07 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCFACA31AAA for ; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:28:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan_partelly@rdsor.ro) Received: from mail.rdsor.ro (mail.rdsor.ro [193.231.238.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C876317E5; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:28:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dan_partelly@rdsor.ro) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (unknown [79.119.24.18]) by mail.rdsor.ro (Postfix) with ESMTP id 335EA23286; Fri, 20 Nov 2015 18:28:04 +0200 (EET) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.1 \(3096.5\)) Subject: Re: DDB patches From: Dan Partelly In-Reply-To: <564F42AC.4050404@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 18:28:03 +0200 Cc: Adrian Chadd , freebsd-current Message-Id: <3E6A6B32-1339-4466-81BA-4A74377D062C@rdsor.ro> References: <22918FB9-4DC2-438D-B9F0-C295DD273B50@rdsor.ro> <8FCD1760-FD2C-4C08-837A-A2ADD2581FC3@rdsor.ro> <564F42AC.4050404@FreeBSD.org> To: Pedro Giffuni X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3096.5) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.20 X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 16:28:07 -0000 > A template for blackmailing is usually in the form: >=20 > "I will do this (usually involving saving the world and/or your > evidently miserable life) but first you will have to do this > (unrelated) thing to see that you are worthy.=E2=80=9D It is interesting how much you dwell on this. I just told you what = reasons=20 I have to take this path, and that it doesn't include the intent to = blackmail=20 anyone. I want to experience the process with already existing code,=20 before contemplating more in the future. Is this: 1. So hard to understand ? 2. Wrong in the eyes of god, or something ? Leaving aside saving the world, and / or miserable lives , damsels in = distress and other=20 fantasies, you will just have to accept what I said, instead of = insisting you know better what is in my head.=20 > . You can try.. but there will likely > be pain. You see this from a very interesting angle. I am not trying to change = you or your community.=20 No sane person would do that, knowing how powerful social forces are. = Do you really think I would embark on such a fool=E2=80=99s errand ? I told you, I like to = spend time with walking with my dog :P=20 What I am trying to determine where to position myself.=20 > That doesn't mean everyone is happy with it or that it is perfect > but it went in through an open process.=20 Ill take your word for it. But in my opinion the result of this open = process is that: 1. A distasteful solution was adopted into the base.=20 2. Still people think that it was adopted only because someone had the = code (Juniper) 3. While others seems to think Junpier ppl pushed it (Im not saying they = did,=20 but you can certainly push something pressing the correct political = buttons. > You can experiment on your own without waiting on us to decide: > eventually we may decide to bring it in =E2=80=A6 You tell me nothing new, but thank you. > On 20 Nov 2015, at 17:56, Pedro Giffuni wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 11/20/15 08:54, Dan Partelly wrote: >> Hi Pedro, >>=20 >> I think you confuse blackmailing with something much simpler and = pragmatic. >> One needs to asses how things work in your project for real before = investing >> too much time. >>=20 >=20 > A template for blackmailing is usually in the form: >=20 > "I will do this (usually involving saving the world and/or your > evidently miserable life) but first you will have to do this > (unrelated) thing to see that you are worthy." >=20 >> Adrian was contemplating the fact that none writes code, so I had = some code at the >> hand with with I can see how things work around here. You want it, = good. >> You don't want it, its also good. >=20 > I don't know about the (new) libxo discussion, but the ddb thing is = unrelated to such discussion, and when I first looked at it it was > not in good shape. >=20 > You want to trash it=E2=80=A6 also good. >> Its all the same to me. This process is aimed to give me an idea , = if your workflow >> works for me. >>=20 >=20 > In my experience it is always easier for new contributors to adapt to > the community than to re-shape it. You can try.. but there will likely > be pain. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> you discuss your idea and try to get some consensus in the = lists/IRC/conferences. >>=20 >> I am not particularly interested in promoting ideas and gathering = consensus. I am not a >> politician. I happen to believe that translating some utilities from = the base to libraries >> is a very valuable addition to the project. Id rather spend time = with my familty and walk >> around the city in nature with my GSD dog than embarking on some = twisted political >> campaign. >>=20 >>> We are particularly NOT interested in code where the original = contributor will walk >>> away as soon as he/she receives criticism or has plans that do not = match ours. >>=20 >> Undeerstandable. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Libxo already went through this process. >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>>> Libxo already went through this process. >>=20 >> It did, aint it ? And I seen what kind of =E2=80=9Cconsensus=E2=80=9D = the xoification of base >> caused. Apparently, adopted for no better reason than =E2=80=9Csomeone = wrote code=E2=80=9D . >>=20 >=20 >=20 > There was a GSoC that did a different implementation but libxo was > specifically made for FreeBSD after a long discussion. >=20 > That doesn't mean everyone is happy with it or that it is perfect > but it went in through an open process. The process, call it politics > or consensus or community building, is important in any opensource > effort that aims to be sustainable. >=20 > These days github makes it pretty easy for anyone to play with their > new ideas to the limit. When I mean you can fork your own BSD, I > mean it. You can experiment on your own without waiting on us to = decide: > eventually we may decide to bring it in ... >=20 > Pedro.