From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 19 17:37:30 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 259D016A403 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:37:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from henry.lenzi@gmail.com) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.178]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D630213C45A for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:37:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from henry.lenzi@gmail.com) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id f31so530766pyh for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:37:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=US+lI0lxYU6/4TObidg7r02CbMEQ26AoOG4jJ+9XWZCEWP0QLWo5jHm2FIAYSb2CKJpdTDXgTuNVDZMF7Mumv7CiEnD4G/b9Xs7cI3bdFQpy8b0ozCVDlC3x710AXyOonkPgChX3W+fsAb54Cvoj3N8IFRGRoETCZFkRMS2F6Eo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Hb0P7WSfOo8jBG/7jeeQd52EcN/yl0E8l7m+FeThfrtlu4/erfx2ywjzy6EuCmEqFKmzB20e1Kfq2H0PU57sH8Z+AiJzVrO4b73i9vxNRoOdG/+9AWFHWHJpUJ+cHkNphrmJFU6l74JamQVPCC9cnzy13SmULN9T5uhNMj04nak= Received: by 10.65.84.6 with SMTP id m6mr4102312qbl.1177004247934; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.204.7 with HTTP; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8b4c81f0704191037j6611f32ch26463df4c635dfd4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:37:27 -0300 From: "Henry Lenzi" To: racerx@makeworld.com In-Reply-To: <4627A10F.4030305@makeworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1176551927.6799.9.camel@FreeBSD.localhost> <8b4c81f0704190933m6a34fcek98a391d7f0325bb1@mail.gmail.com> <4627A10F.4030305@makeworld.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I like Ubuntu X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:37:30 -0000 On 4/19/07, Chris wrote: > Henry Lenzi wrote: > > I find nothing brilliant in Debian's package management. It's heavily > > dependent upon human intervention and just adds a layer of complexity > > on top of a problem that was *already solved* in the Unix world, by > > using Make files. Do they have a better backtracking algorithm then > > Make? No. > > I don't understand this at all. It's quite obvious you don't. > Assuming that Ubuntu's package > management is nearly the same as Debian's (by means of apt-get etc.) > then how do you figure it's heavily dependent on human intervention? > Have you ever seen the process whereby Debian (and I keep saying Debian because Ubuntu just piggybacks on the Debian developers) releases packages? Their package management system is supposed to be about handling dependencies automatically. Well, I'm not sure you've quite noticed this, that FreeBSD (and the other BSDs) *also* handle dependencies automatically. How? Because of the Magic Makefiles and its backtracking algorithm! Well, funny, huh. No need to reinvent the wheel, as 3 BSD Unixes demonstrate daily. > > > Debian's package management is the number one cause that distro just > > got slower and slower in their release cycle. > > Interesting - so, the semi annual (of course this means 2 times a year) > release of say Ubuntu isn't in line with say, OpenBSD or even FreeBSD > (when they manage to push our 2 releases in a year). I said Debian and you said Ubuntu. My point was that the packaging system they have impinges an extra work load on their "developers" (there aren't really developers in Debian, only packagers. Only one or two develop system-level software, unlike in the BSDs). Fine. Ubuntu release sin a 6 months cycle. That is the reason they created Ubuntu, because Debian couldn't handle it. Notice that Ubuntu has full time developers on their payroll, *and* they piggyback on Debian. My point being that part of the blame lies in the technology which, in fact, is an opinion seldom heard. A funny thing that the guy who actually invented dpkg doesn't really use it anymore... Here's what you do: plot a graphic of the growth of number of packages in Debian, and then observe how that relates to their release cycle. You'll notice that the more packages they have, the more they stall. > > Base on what you have stated - you either used a very old version of > Debian or a very old version of Ubuntu. Then again, there is always the > notion that you may not have used any of the above and are just talking > out your keister ;) > > > Henry Lenzi Yes I have, I used Debian for over 5 years. I much prefer FreeBSD nowadays. Anyways, I'll not have an argument with you. I care nothing about Ubuntu or Debian or your opinons on whether I've used Debian or not. That is what I think. I'll just leave it at that. You think Ubuntu is great, good for you. Henry Lenzi