From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 30 14:55:36 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0ED2106566C; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:55:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amdmi3@amdmi3.ru) Received: from smtp.timeweb.ru (smtp.timeweb.ru [217.170.79.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F088FC26; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amdmi3@amdmi3.ru) Received: from [213.148.20.85] (helo=hive.panopticon) by smtp.timeweb.ru with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LSumN-0004c9-I5; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:55:35 +0300 Received: from hades.panopticon (hades.panopticon [192.168.0.32]) by hive.panopticon (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83AC16AB8; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:55:55 +0300 (MSK) Received: by hades.panopticon (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4219B108838; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:56:27 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:56:27 +0000 From: Dmitry Marakasov To: David O'Brien Message-ID: <20090130175627.GA20856@hades.panopticon> References: <200901130653.n0D6rrNX092719@svn.freebsd.org> <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> <20090130113402.GB92386@dragon.NUXI.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20090130113402.GB92386@dragon.NUXI.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 14:55:37 -0000 * David O'Brien (obrien@freebsd.org) wrote: > I'm sorry I disagree. You're complaining about something that is > a feature of FreeBSD 1.x, 2.0 - 3.0, 4.4BSD, all NetBSD versions, > all OpenBSD versions, Sprite, and the Open Group's Open Development > Environment make. Nice. Well I've been using FreeBSD since 4.7, and I don't believe I've seen this once. > Looking at my CSRG archive for usr.bin/make/job.c, all the back to: > ---------------------------- > revision 5.1 > date: 1990/03/11 15:27:28; author: bostic; state: Exp; > Initial revision > ---------------------------- > > So I'm not sure how it violates POLA for a BSD user. Not `BSD user', but just `user'. We can't take somethink that was used back in FreBSD 3.0 as common and expected thing. By least astonishment I mean: - I do not expect to see difference between plain make and parallel make. - I do not expect extra messages - I do not expect behaviour change compared to previous version Remember, make is not only used in FreeBSD kernel, but also in ports (I know -j is not widely used there, but I believe it will someday) and by users themselves. Common knowledge is that make does echo commands executed by default. Then command's stdout/stderr may follow. But there are NO extra messages by default. > They are quite valuable when you have to unwind a broken parallel build. > > The UNIX way is also not hiding information. For folks reporting > build problems, it is valuable to be able to triag their log rather > than continuously telling folks to re-run their build non -j. > > If you want "silence is golden" then all the multitude of lines of > compiler invocation must really bug you. Perhaps we should have the > quiet out put of the ncftp3 build where every complication takes only > 1 line: > > Compiling DStrCat.so: [OK] > Compiling DStrFree.so: [OK] > Compiling Dynscpy.so: [OK] > Compiling Strncpy.so: [OK] > Compiling strtokc.so: [OK] > ..snip.. Have they modified make to display these? I doubt. I agree that such logs are more readable, but it should be done in a way that - does not affect third parties - still is more customizable and verbose than --- $TARGETNAME --- That is, change sys.mk: .c: ${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} -o ${.TARGET} ${.IMPSRC} .c: .if defined (KERNEL_BUILDING) || defined (WORLD_BUILDING) # or how's that checked @echo "CC ${.TARGET}" .endif ${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} -o ${.TARGET} ${.IMPSRC} so it's only conditional for system compilation. -- Dmitry Marakasov . 55B5 0596 FF1E 8D84 5F56 9510 D35A 80DD F9D2 F77D amdmi3@amdmi3.ru ..: jabber: amdmi3@jabber.ru http://www.amdmi3.ru