From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 17:09:18 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7855814E4467 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:09:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x341.google.com (mail-ot1-x341.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::341]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0526B72C9A for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:09:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from johalun0@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x341.google.com with SMTP id m1so29475164otf.5 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:09:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=qLRb9Ar2SE/8YoTCU6nfMNufY63frDKxBj0SOWtriXk=; b=imBUr+YB1DHsAUExSimffYmbdpCfox025EJ1DlwMVryBP0eZTXXFN+J6WECdERy+Cj wYUpVmVfIcXejc/93XvNqRUDKqER0sRONBcHDprC6PKI+M9SpvMDZntBO5NdSXcanB6D Hnyb4zaap+Km8xfr79MXErd7k3slQSEptyLwKz6g3qV4CvGNlM05AUJIIGGPsXfuG5E6 tnuVj7TdgOQRcRzsOmgOoeWS6erPxDeICLU2iMo0Ui/CswvFwiFWEnBEqcobBU2T+e/G 28oxPpyVqq5W+ZxqCUiDVFrdeyfEtwVKdpvosD+v1YmnOS6woxDjZ5l/pVfafYkTv4/L gdmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=qLRb9Ar2SE/8YoTCU6nfMNufY63frDKxBj0SOWtriXk=; b=fC+h9i/VM47p2k7MYUrNx0hiFkP2c1THzdBG96yVjnU4csjalov0ktiycjOc1EPnyk UVP17Ct/qYzm6/ZF62WJwqSgqTUVR3fyhhUIrUy6OJ3LuTsBILWM8p7vHHUuVJxD/d4H /cCMOKQoLCjwaZm5osBa30iIfJzF6lg5fC2VMNfattYtpqbeAQsw/CZvkq/FoBOlFHjY 2scRLrm2zquLWPT2Tc7a/JNhw/Xhs3Hr25I/xaTRn+Kxxh6/GEPyAtbVgGOsZBhCPoIj cWmxKF6/Z2qjT8Bx+qdRr31/Bo7YxU73nHXWGJsSNbwgSmIlCbgOC4g2fd0mlVQ/z02W SlAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZ6p9eOv96JqbB0QBc+JaGMMfJqfQ1u59nWhfo8u8NqO1Ks0VfM b6mL17g1RMJDTwDAW10nQdqC/UUu X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbZn+78PDpO0rEypg1Qf6wDINJi4PKFVaRzSPxDWeskVEaztZBEaaGIFZMoLGSWit85uEGCBg== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:58c3:: with SMTP id s3mr13538039oth.233.1550509755521; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:09:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.33] ([81.174.250.12]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j88sm6044684otj.47.2019.02.18.09.09.13 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:09:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Johannes Lundberg Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=johalun0@gmail.com; keydata= mQINBFxFmoIBEADoFO5jY+Fmsg44KiZjufEmpEf4kt7nCOfxNG9SruWpoXUaq0B296F+fIZC hNZqv1v7lGTsfoWRusxJmLd5CQgHHxEyruZbbPpNsQ/JKoDY3GGmrmWfN/SX3y0t0kdB9HsW mJcvZhK7we52f4gxddIVBS9nQoVoONX+hzXf8zwOAa0ik0EPgEwpIKS4j9lLq4bU+mqVKdRR bPeDujEA/qbsCKhaFJkPzXZtzEe6srq4RK1doEztwnKz02b+8gs642TRkWDQeTRZputrAaoN Un4R76A1QpXWyrFG1dQu48IGHi3KbkrvNyq6R1aUBIA0+CG1npIbxmc2mtSjoyvdipmDRbBD +mhECIxmYfBT6818zuj91XjrfOyfVdV2BryBvqFkJLkS3N3QElBIiVdDgdrqiNFWiOlDMxNI tdP16oQBNo8IB27/0YHpnQEw1MafZv5gG5DO0zLtLy88ASAfL7BYf90JP19rT4JIwnxsXxyv kEJnzhsXf0QVObEiAu1MqeFyWfZ8PpunmvEmJ0VChOL+v/kIx1E9cxhhzMZhqiMXfyM4zx2+ BF1FwAwJYPuJLu2B3L0uVBu+M1YvSOmKAbXPDP8PsqPjgSBTYI51MUjuuxN6jSsHDuK6G5k4 pUWR8axa+wafhd6Vz8zVwdTJZ9LdxgLLVg0kprBgccPHhPAZVQARAQABtCZKb2hhbm5lcyBM dW5kYmVyZyA8am9oYWx1bjBAZ21haWwuY29tPokCVAQTAQgAPhYhBIl1Pb3+hI60ivmRSULn yG4BGvSeBQJcRZqCAhsjBQkJZgGABQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheAAAoJEELnyG4B GvSe9O0P/RzeQAu1R37RlONZTXNn+qIAHvHbZEhzrCibzaZnwYdC31wGrYmXNDyiQIqOngFf QJuufQtH/+95OESJsjR+42L/pNfFdaEWxiI003qE7uCMzLK5UWUXd/5d5vYY0CaPyNCj1tyM ZIq7x4CaR3QLTh/Fw4zMUI/ZPH2S5SxVFGv0ZZFAdNYILD3qCkAS/9HmXsqufBWbfutA8TTf wyJfywmvf7ENjlZ4QOjb242ZY9NndqbmqTgWVAws+PN5e9AT8HkadscCTCSkYnxJyYG2El27 DpAAkekYplb/C0j82KSz2fy9RgwD+tTqt88DJOeFbIbrYt44u7KLHpzaZeqyUtn0reHCkE0W lnKH2kXXbuswFB4sONxI/J5+qSmOsAm5ItO3voyjm/swpmFR1yBlxo4th26gbO5NfBOK9YsY zHKgiRDv6ZdnHo+htphRxcCDHsFPzkQe5jouI25dvMZYl1LaTS/09lwYVwVIB2SFmMtFZ7rB N4NBSzPlpsg+g4dJNqiw6Rfa2Q/wUv+MzTJgLtHjDccXlpm33Nc09UytHFtNn26PO/zrM39r TwzdLu1mg0x2WWEWTIqe4CaczQU9SIg49BSyJNoPSZx3V7nMhTKbOeQKR5aV3dXI66aENw86 pa1tipuUKCPmope/GTJatUgPiD3JkyiD+7c1zQX2UAGmuQINBFxFmoIBEACb55RAkM59huAx 4Ddd8WBjsw25qf7rzxeRKAQ7or/8LvJBYQDPXZy0RhkRiu+P+MjxwGb6HVh+LDyAYDn9d8Mt ZqCP/dOGNcl7pkb6IhfRc3i5neckXCYfbm0cigiX9JkqZSt3KT96zbjCxsFZKyIyEFsMl46q 7wKWK5Irj3zxV/Z51JNTJyMLcIRWhY8G6qlMNFgZkz2Hv63w6BRekKVImOmOdThLAscy5ybq 2CIUeAwPG7lMYG9rgcPdn3tMPeWlLmUmi5pSwOQ3AKg3xFrW3WfegjRHdqpeuXoeTjYPPCW4 gyl59uv6E12a6eivItCxj67vlBXgOr4um+zoPyXG/WfidIFtWaEgyBrlGR1Klk7SIcqjEHUA FdiM+PweY4opHXXKn60NOZCqBJ59K43drOQgRouz8E2T3yEoYg40xAfY3lhJV/Vx5+kSTjmy sT2xotlPn/GzfaAEvNuJDK+Mec3LvfbbDoOWFolNyEvoMQqF5Q3A8eGqYsoVGBPxyzNvF2iY LkymxiXpgrSN0Q/LOK7pFlWwbVC8Z6g5I0J9ecgD55dGLoX2luLir787XX/JxGffzbRnP9NE ifenJGrQmx4CyEaz/CHQqSbROm5Uo/YFUX9J7OfUO4mtu90j773j32I3psey/Fz3EC/A2PHv Ghb0KsWYpS3Pj5TV1gGyswARAQABiQI8BBgBCAAmFiEEiXU9vf6EjrSK+ZFJQufIbgEa9J4F AlxFmoICGwwFCQlmAYAACgkQQufIbgEa9J7qOQ//YG/4e69YTSjtiYLXzBI8tRU2Sx+NFByx zx+C/r0EBThLtgRwCqEUZRB7iIDSO8aZ0Qa3vwWRohlD1tn/LBdDFfMmuQkNVdLIrjBoGBB9 B5xHdZJ9xnTZEwpTtk6IWolT4j+8rpGemGKKiFo3X6l02On4Qb4iM7h6rcDb76mfwooNYzB3 8PPcLvyOWb/9iCXAb5N7doo5zmOl15DVwvIF04eXU0q1FFj/iS1zNmtZ5Got82O1TQFV+de4 Rb3YA80IZhhhCiHHJqkMKeKQogRqU+UNDBARUBxfUtKsJtQzTQ2JUGwkb6X6bx53FTLP6O9q hDoODVweE1LdB1k1H5Nn+gawPdRMBqj43Y2amK7KEgoTBrwU04CLpKiaAC0S+EcJFfJcwtpK k3F+uTtP/hnhFnWbn8SgRkHKXKWqSCt63NstXhMzAJut1gEzV+CcPNKqa/sFgQaYEvzCS5Kl F/PXj0++f3TIFqT+2ZNNp8Bz8dT7gh8RPPg5oYQiCHH8K1RAmq7gKqmwyg0qgOazHnped+od X4f3qx320JAP6NP9wglDm6eht48NJzb0sffN8z34wrP66oz8oPKtS5CFV0m/384hEg0lmi3W wo2Hno7rA1etTPJX0dI6/GLlQDtNTHvKQ077HQdWVOMQVWC9j7YH7Zr9NjtOvxcNVRX3fxpJ 6CE= X-Tagtoolbar-Keys: D20190218170911774 Message-ID: <9a8f4152-af60-88f3-c5a0-8990cccbc2f1@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:09:11 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201902181512.x1IFCOwm005711@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0526B72C9A X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=imBUr+YB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of johalun0@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::341 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=johalun0@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.09 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: alt3.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.833,0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(-0.25)[ip: (3.39), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.57), asn: 15169(-1.98), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[1.4.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:09:18 -0000 On 2/18/19 3:12 PM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> On 2/18/19 12:06 PM, Stefan Blachmann wrote: >>> On 2/18/19, Vladimir Kondratyev wrote: >>>> On 2019-02-17 21:03, Steve Kargl wrote: >>>>> Anyone have insight into what evdev is? >>>> evdev.ko is a small in-kernel library that makes all your input even= ts >>>> like keyboard presses libinput-compatible. >>> And libinput was created by the Freedesktop Wayland team to create >>> pressure on OS people to make their systems Wayland-compatible. >>> >>>>> I do not need nor what these modules loaded. >>>> I think removing "option EVDEV_SUPPORT" from your kernel config shou= ld >>>> disable most of evdev.ko dependencies >>> Shouldn't the EVDEV_SUPPORT default be off on FreeBSD anyway, as well= >>> as libinput not be part of the standard packages? >>> >>> The Freedesktop Wayland team consists of people with the Kay Sievers >>> mentality, which made Linus Torvalds ban his contributions. They do >>> not care about the bugs they introduce, forcing others to clean up th= e >>> mess they create. >>> >>> I'd be glad if FreeBSD would keep clean of following that Wayland fad= =2E.. >> EVDEV_SUPPORT was enabled in GENERIC on 13 and 12-stable to improve=20 >> input device handling in X and Wayland. Not having it means that a lo= t=20 >> of input devices stop working, or work much worse. >> >> We in the FreeBSD Graphics Team are working very hard to improve the=20 >> FreeBSD Desktop experience, since it is an avenue to recruit new users= ,=20 >> and make current users use FreeBSD more. > Sadly your execution on that seems to be missing the mark, > telling people they have to go get a port now to get drm working > because it could not be maintained in base, and then telling them, > oh, you need this new code in base so that it is so much easier > to use graphical stuff this way. > > These seem to be conflicting stories. You don't need evdev or libinput to have a functional desktop with a 3-button mouse but some modern desktop environments require it. Why should we not include the large group of people who want to run a modern desktop? Including more users does not mean excluding anyone in this case= =2E > >> Evdev and libinput is used by both Wayland and xorg. You are free to = >> use either one. > And sadly now must take action when no action was required before > when using neither. Take what action? If you don't need it, just don't use it. If you don't want change, stay on older release. If you are a purist and want to remove everything in the kernel you don't use, you probably already have your custom kernel config, and you probably are a minority. Consider the well-being, progress and future of the project and the community at large instead of your ego. >