From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Nov 11 15:29:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 906FBA2C17D; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ig0-x244.google.com (mail-ig0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B90E1643; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:29:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: by igcqf20 with SMTP id qf20so3545586igc.0; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 07:29:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Y2DS7Hf+Bf1NXd9iBy2CRpUyaidco158z4IuzkcuKl0=; b=breTa14v3ucwp82fQq+8n4P/rlY5Gb6S7TBSkQfifTsut/RCv13flXXBVqB1tv4/st taJtPUcq2E7gxiVH5UGvBaqeSyWi15q4ecpo352NVvdotPSGBzSQTDcKmre81ylhK2v9 +vwi1IVKHrx7kLhZvFApj+5JFgYFVJaawl5gvwrfArAV+SvsKJ8Eee3HDcveBW0hScb5 6LRWqsT1Jq1WXrTEwFs60pADg06zT8J4ti9mOQjcabADxI3QVaMOUFGdHTD8e+34wUNe VopfqCsAH6b5PWAamEq+u8CumlHugH/3T5NePG+G9FVkkXtqXZkrE7OkB8xTF9S1myxB JvnQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.73.228 with SMTP id o4mr32978267igv.37.1447255744649; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 07:29:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.217.196 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Nov 2015 07:29:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <56434F34.6040707@sorbs.net> References: <64302b19-9f33-4267-af44-7fc30ea4bf3d@email.android.com> <56434F34.6040707@sorbs.net> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 07:29:04 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Sparc64 doesn't care about you, and you shouldn't care about Sparc64 From: Adrian Chadd To: Michelle Sullivan Cc: Alex McWhirter , Anna Wilcox , freebsd-arch , sparc64@freebsd.org, Sean Bruno , Warner Losh , Marius Strobl , Jordan Hubbard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:29:05 -0000 On 11 November 2015 at 06:22, Michelle Sullivan wrote: > Alex McWhirter wrote: >> The difference between most of the discontinued architectures and SPARC is that Oracle is showing more and more interest in developing their SPARC platform. > > Problem is they are killing it off with the business model. > >> If you consider the arm port, when it comes to alternative operating systems it probably has even a smaller market share than sparc. > > Isn't the Raspberry PI ARM? (mind you FreeBSD would have to try and > catch up to Linux for that one - though it (the platform) is popular.) > > >> I've sat in on my own fair share of Oracle meetings over the past few months, and they are doing everything in their power to push their customers on sparc and Solaris. >> >> > They should consider what worked for Sun and what has killed their > market share off. > > My experience has been in the past that Sun hardware had a massive > following on the secondhand market... Oracle pretty much killed it... > and along with it went the admins. I used to admin as part of teams > datacenters full of Sun boxes, now I don't know where I can even find a > datacenter with a Sun/Oracle box in it - except mine... and all mine are > being depreciated. > > > FreeBSD has an opportunity to fill the void in the secondhand Oracle > (Sun) Hardware market if people want to take it.... but I seriously > don't see why anyone would buy new Oracle boxes and shove FreeBSD on > them - unless their admins already manage FreeBSD on older + Intel hardware. > As always, someone has to write and debug the code. Users are only as good as the revenue to generate to cover development/debugging/deployment costs. So if you're a sparc64 user, how much would you be willing to pay for freebsd/sparc64 support and development? I'm all for keeping an architecture like sparc around, as long as there's active development and active users. MIPS has both. ARM has both. Powerpc has both. Sparc is missing some active developers, but it has plenty of FreeBSD users that speak up (and more users that only speak up privately.) So, if you want to see sparc64 support continue, this requires a grass roots effort to get more development happening - either users need to step up, or someone has to start contributing money. -adrian