From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu May 17 17:39:49 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D11DE16A406 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:39:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS1=bc7b2056a2aeff94f34b38f3a174a04fd4b26982=es.net==bc7b2056a2aeff94f34b38f3a174a04fd4b26982=338=es.net=oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal1.es.net [198.128.3.205]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3C013C4BE for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 17:39:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS1=bc7b2056a2aeff94f34b38f3a174a04fd4b26982=es.net==bc7b2056a2aeff94f34b38f3a174a04fd4b26982=338=es.net=oberman@es.net) Received: from postal1.es.net (postal4.es.net [198.124.252.66]) by postal1.es.net (Postal Node 1) with ESMTP (SSL) id WWP08519 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:19 -0700 Received: from postal1.es.net (postal2.es.net [198.128.3.206]) by postal4.es.net (Postal Node 4) with ESMTP (SSL) id WWP59216 for ; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:16 -0700 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [198.128.4.29]) by postal2.es.net (Postal Node 2) with ESMTP (SSL) id WWP44115; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:15 -0700 Received: from ptavv.es.net (ptavv.es.net [127.0.0.1]) by ptavv.es.net (Tachyon Server) with ESMTP id 06DEF45042; Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:15 -0700 (PDT) To: Chris In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 17 May 2007 16:30:50 BST." <3aaaa3a0705170830g46487cc7occc8a51b82a9118b@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1179422655_25350P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:24:15 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" Message-Id: <20070517172415.06DEF45042@ptavv.es.net> Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fast rate of major FreeBSD releases to STABLE X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 17:39:49 -0000 --==_Exmh_1179422655_25350P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 16:30:50 +0100 > From: Chris > Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org > > I have mentioned this before about releasing a new major version of > FreeBSD at such short intervals. Now I am wondering what path the > FreeBSD community is taking in regards to server and desktop use. > > Stuff I would love to see in FreeBSD 7.x (CURRENT) before 7.0 release > which looks like it isnt going to happen > > Multi IP Jails - waiting since 4.x, patches done for both 5.x and 6.x > but never commited. No idea. > Dynamic tcp windows - I think is patched but not heard if commited. It should be in 7.0. 7.0 will have really major network improvements. I even had one vendor tell us that if we wanted to improve the performance of their 10GE card, we should switch from Linux to FreeBSD-current. > More hardware support - FreeBSD still has poor hardware support when > compared to other OS's, in particular vendors such as realtek nics. An on-going issue. Linux simply has more people working on device support, so it often (but no always) gets support first. Current does have several new network devices including more wireless NICs. > A more user friendly installer so datacentres stop been put off FreeBSD. While sysinstall is ugly, I find it very easy to use and use it for non-installation stuff (fdisk and bsdlabel) for its friendlier user interface. I have never been happy with GUI installers although a re-write if sysinstall would probably be a good thing. > Work on the network code so STABLE stops panicing and lagging on low > amounts of ddos that 4.x barely flexed at and even 5.x could cope > with. This is probably better, but I have not done much testing. > The recent ports freeze has also concerned me, this is the longest > ports freeze I have witnessed since I started using FreeBSD years ago > and its for a desktop element of the os, does it matter if servers > running FreeBSD have to remain on vulnerable versions of ports as a > result of this? Now this is totally bogus. The freeze before the 6.0 release was VERY long and several have been longer than this one has been so far. The ports collection is one of the greatest things about FreeBSD and having lots of ports break when a major one (such as Xorg) is updated is very difficult and takes a lot of time to build test everything. Just creating an upgrade procedure that works for everyone running FreeBSD of any supported version is a major effort. > The viability of upgrading FreeBSD to a new major version at least > every 2 years is small, can choose not to upgrade as security patches > will exist but ports only get supported on the latest STABLE tree now > and I expect 5.x development will be killed off like 4.x was when 7.0 > hits release. ??? I should leave this to others, but in the past FreeBSD has received heavy criticism for taking too long between releases. I guess you just can't win. Yes, V5 development is pretty well at an end (though V5 was not one of FreeBSD's better releases and I never used it on production systems), but V6 support will continue for quite a while. > Why cant 7.0 be released when more long awaited features are added and > then not as STABLE tree only as CURRENT (like 5.0 was) and if 7.0 is > considered stable then 7.1 can be STABLE branch. I consider 6.2 to be > the first release in 6.x branch close to proper stability and that > release is under a year old before a new major release is due. The release of V5.0 was as a development release because V5.0 had so many changes from V4 that all developers had to know that there were going to be problems, but the RE team also realized that, if they did not draw a line in the sand, it would only get worse. I am VERY sure that RE and the developers NEVER want to go through that again. As of today, CURRENT is in pretty excellent shape, but it still does have a few issues and more will certainly pop up when it is released. No one who has any experience is going to drop 7.0 on any critical system. I run it on one desktop and my laptop. I am NOT going to install 7.0 on my DNS servers or any other critical system. Depending on how things go with 7.0, I will probably install 7.1 on most systems. I may be braver than most, though (or more foolish). > Please dont flame me as I am a avid FreeBSD server user not a fan of > linux so not been a troll this is a serious post. I'm not flaming (yet), because you ask some good questions and are probably suffering from fading memory of prior releases. (I know that I try to forget a couple of them.) -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 --==_Exmh_1179422655_25350P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 06/03/2002 iD8DBQFGTI+/kn3rs5h7N1ERAghWAJ9BQKUH7UQ0jp26xu/QAGFD9iW1fQCfVu2N nkd69pCuOXvpVP7NvK5QoUE= =LqUV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1179422655_25350P--