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Date:      Thu, 3 Dec 2015 15:35:12 -0600
From:      Justin Hibbits <jrh29@alumni.cwru.edu>
To:        Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org>,  "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Removing build metadata, for reproducible kernel builds
Message-ID:  <CAHSQbTBTefh6dfcn%2B0nUfjyMvtVuimzocPrnPDTkY1nXU7y9Ww@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <1449177325.6214.14.camel@freebsd.org>
References:  <CAPyFy2AYeN9XNg=b0=JMWDC9ctWarfiZ-5zQorOPhguDJgxYpg@mail.gmail.com> <D9AF1C8B-431C-4359-988F-FDEEF8FAD981@bsdimp.com> <CAPyFy2CZYV%2B-5pDQjCA4Btct1VZUyEQUuL2iU1z07Ff-n2Y9Hg@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfqP3=%2BBHM_%2B=ZrNouGrXW5WAwHC87F2teEi%2BE2j-AMm6g@mail.gmail.com> <1449177325.6214.14.camel@freebsd.org>

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On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2015-12-03 at 12:53 -0700, Warner Losh wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Ed Maste <emaste@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On 3 December 2015 at 05:51, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I noted in the review that I don=E2=80=99t like the default being no=
.
>> > >
>> > > I also don=E2=80=99t like that we=E2=80=99re growing lots of differe=
nt knobs that need
>> > > to be set to get a repeatable build. Let=E2=80=99s have one, or barr=
ing that,
>> > > let=E2=80=99s have one that sets all the sub-knobs.
>> >
>> > My hope is that we'll have a reproducible build by default, and that
>> > *no* knobs need to be set. That's what I intend with my patch. I can
>> > rename the knob to WITH_/WITHOUT_REPRODUCIBLE_BUILD though if that's
>> > generally desired. If there's a consensus to default to including the
>> > metadata I'm fine with setting it in make release.
>>
>>
>> I think this an unwise decision in the current form suggested. The kerne=
l
>> metadata has saved my butt enough times I really don't want to see it
>> go by default. But see below for a reasonable (imho) middle ground that
>> would be a good default.
>>
>
> I'm curious why anyone wants this enabled by default, like... are we
> missing something?  Does it improve freebsd-update behavior maybe?
>
> If it's just for some general "reproducibility is good" philosophy then
> I would counter with "information is even better, so don't throw it
> away without a good reason."
>
> Reproducibility is good for some people, and completely useless for
> others, and the people who need it aren't going to mind turning on a
> knob or two to get what they want.
>
>>
>> > > I think that host and path are more worthless than date and time
>> > > in many environments. Who builds it likewise. Those are all things
>> > > that are likely to change between builds, yet change the kernel
>> > > image. I=E2=80=99d rather see it all gone when this option is in eff=
ect.
>> >
>> > I don't follow -- other than the build iteration number (which I
>> > indeed missed), it is all gone.
>> >
>>
>> Yea I was reading things backwards.
>>
>> In the review, I suggested that if you've modified the tree (which the S=
CM
>> will tell you), then do the old format to preserve useful metadata that'=
s
>> really really needed and if not to use the shorter version. When you've
>> modified the tree, reproducible builds aren't a concern at all.
>>
>
> How are you going to determine what consitutes a modified tree?  What
> you think of as modifications may be what I call my baseline version.
>
> -- Ian

svnversion resulting in a 'nnnnnnM'?

- Justin



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