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Date:      Thu, 19 Nov 2020 11:00:26 -0800
From:      John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Mark Johnston <markj@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Mateusz Guzik <mjguzik@gmail.com>, src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, svn-src-head@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r367695 - in head/sys: kern sys
Message-ID:  <617c0b5a-8295-8c53-ff18-6c7a5ace8a68@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <X7X6KSF66QZbOZCI@raichu>
References:  <202011141922.0AEJM2ld055995@repo.freebsd.org> <d3624785-1bc4-43d1-37b6-12a989444505@FreeBSD.org> <CAGudoHGyyJRRmEUuoVkjowO5kRLpVz_VFha3MQwu%2B1P_4MU1kg@mail.gmail.com> <4f6f6b0a-e71c-a286-507e-abf2522c142c@FreeBSD.org> <X7X6KSF66QZbOZCI@raichu>

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On 11/18/20 8:52 PM, Mark Johnston wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 03:37:36PM -0800, John Baldwin wrote:
>> On 11/18/20 2:16 PM, Mateusz Guzik wrote:
>>> On 11/17/20, John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>>> On 11/14/20 11:22 AM, Mateusz Guzik wrote:
>>> Interested parties can check the consumer (also seen in the diff) to
>>> see this is for consistency. I don't think any comments are warranted
>>> in the header.
>>
>> I did read the consumer, and there didn't seem tremendous value in the
>> extra line there.
>>
>>>> These changes would benefit from review.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think it's feasible to ask for review for everything lest it
>>> degardes to rubber stamping and I don't think this change warranted
>>> it, regardless of the cosmetic issues which can always show up.
>>
>> That is not consistent with the direction the project is moving.  If you
>> check the commit logs of other high-volume committers such as markj@,
>> kib@, or myself, you will find that a substantial number of those commits
>> are reviewed (typically in phabricator) without preventing us from
>> making useful progress.  Also, while the previous core did not mandate
>> reviews, we moved closer to it when the Pre-Commit Review chapter was
>> added to the Committer's Guide:
>>
>> https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/committers-guide/pre-commit-review.html
>>
>> In the related thread on developers@ we indicated that while weren't yet
>> making pre-commit review mandatory, we collectively want to move in that
>> direction.
> 
> With regard to the future direction of src development, I would propose
> a middle ground.  Most, if not all, changes should get a Phabricator
> review.  There should be some minimum period between creation of that
> review and a commit.  The developer should make some effort to cc active
> committers to the code.  Some areas of the tree will have stricter
> rules, but in general absence of feedback means that it's ok to commit.
> Exceptions might apply to build fixes, etc..  This still imposes some
> friction on the development process, but I have trouble seeing why
> someone's contibution might be gated on their ability to commit at a
> moment's notice.

Mmm, I think I agree fully with this, and that perhaps the terminology
is not clear as different folks have different perceptions of what
"mandatory reviews" means perhaps.  I know that some projects I work with
have a fully "mandatory" requirement (OpenSSL seems to), and others have
some exceptions (the "obvious" rule in FSF projects like GDB which the
note in the committers guide does include a variant of).  It is true
though that in practice sometimes changes just time out due to lack of
review (the OCF refactor is one of those in which I was able to get some
partial review of some pieces or some of the concepts, but not the
change as a whole).  I do think we want to be in a place where we do
at least seek review for most changes with an understanding that a change
can "timeout" on review and be merged without always having review
approval.
 
> There are some technical issues around Phabricator that would need to be
> ironed out before this is really doable.  For me, the main one is that
> email notifications are all-or-nothing: I would very much like to be
> able to get email for each new review without automatically being
> subscribed.

That would indeed be interesting.  In all of the Projects I've worked
with using GH or e-mail, it does seem to be all-or-nothing if you are
on the notify list.

Hmm, looks like you can create a Herald rule to do this btw.  Let's
see if this works:

https://reviews.freebsd.org/H138


-- 
John Baldwin



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