From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Apr 19 18:06:05 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F9816A400 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:06:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from omr1.networksolutionsemail.com (omr1.networksolutionsemail.com [205.178.146.51]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A57E213C44C for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:06:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from racerx@makeworld.com) Received: from mail.networksolutionsemail.com (ns-omr1.mgt.netsol.com [10.49.6.64]) by omr1.networksolutionsemail.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l3JI648Q009179 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:06:04 -0400 Received: (qmail 31313 invoked by uid 78); 19 Apr 2007 18:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.77?) (racerx@makeworld.com@63.85.253.50) by ns-omr1.lb.hosting.dc2.netsol.com with SMTP; 19 Apr 2007 18:06:03 -0000 Message-ID: <4627AF85.5050603@makeworld.com> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:05:57 -0500 From: Chris User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (X11/20070403) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henry Lenzi References: <1176551927.6799.9.camel@FreeBSD.localhost> <8b4c81f0704190933m6a34fcek98a391d7f0325bb1@mail.gmail.com> <4627A10F.4030305@makeworld.com> <8b4c81f0704191037j6611f32ch26463df4c635dfd4@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8b4c81f0704191037j6611f32ch26463df4c635dfd4@mail.gmail.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.2.0 OpenPGP: id=C01BC363 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I like Ubuntu X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: racerx@makeworld.com List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:06:05 -0000 Henry Lenzi wrote: > On 4/19/07, Chris wrote: >> Henry Lenzi wrote: >> > I find nothing brilliant in Debian's package management. It's heavily >> > dependent upon human intervention and just adds a layer of complexity >> > on top of a problem that was *already solved* in the Unix world, by >> > using Make files. Do they have a better backtracking algorithm then >> > Make? No. >> >> I don't understand this at all. > > It's quite obvious you don't. > >> Assuming that Ubuntu's package >> management is nearly the same as Debian's (by means of apt-get etc.) >> then how do you figure it's heavily dependent on human intervention? >> > > Have you ever seen the process whereby Debian (and I keep saying > Debian because Ubuntu just piggybacks on the Debian developers) > releases packages? > > Their package management system is supposed to be about handling > dependencies automatically. Well, I'm not sure you've quite noticed > this, that FreeBSD (and the other BSDs) *also* handle dependencies > automatically. How? Because of the Magic Makefiles and its > backtracking algorithm! Well, funny, huh. No need to reinvent the > wheel, as 3 BSD Unixes demonstrate daily. > >> >> > Debian's package management is the number one cause that distro just >> > got slower and slower in their release cycle. >> > >> Interesting - so, the semi annual (of course this means 2 times a year) >> release of say Ubuntu isn't in line with say, OpenBSD or even FreeBSD >> (when they manage to push our 2 releases in a year). > > I said Debian and you said Ubuntu. My point was that the packaging > system they have impinges an extra work load on their "developers" > (there aren't really developers in Debian, only packagers. Only one or > two develop system-level software, unlike in the BSDs). > Fine. Ubuntu release sin a 6 months cycle. That is the reason they > created Ubuntu, because Debian couldn't handle it. Notice that Ubuntu > has full time developers on their payroll, *and* they piggyback on > Debian. My point being that part of the blame lies in the technology > which, in fact, is an opinion seldom heard. A funny thing that the guy > who actually invented dpkg doesn't really use it anymore... > Here's what you do: plot a graphic of the growth of number of packages > in Debian, and then observe how that relates to their release cycle. > You'll notice that the more packages they have, the more they stall. > >> >> Base on what you have stated - you either used a very old version of >> Debian or a very old version of Ubuntu. Then again, there is always the >> notion that you may not have used any of the above and are just talking >> out your keister ;) >> >> > Henry Lenzi > > Yes I have, I used Debian for over 5 years. I much prefer FreeBSD > nowadays. Anyways, I'll not have an argument with you. I care nothing > about Ubuntu or Debian or your opinons on whether I've used Debian or > not. That is what I think. I'll just leave it at that. You think > Ubuntu is great, good for you. > > Henry Lenzi > > As I mentioned before - the Op's question was/is about Ubuntu. I simply clarified the fact that you were muddying the waters by stating Debian. And perhaps its true - Ubu is nothing more then a better Debian - but i must reiterate the fact - the thread was about Ubu. By muddying the waters of the thread - you are lending information that isn't pertainant to the Op or anyone else for that matter. I will admit one thing, from the wording of your thread, it appears as I mis interrupted what you meant. While I read it from an end user point of view - you clearly meant it from a programmers (or package maintaners) point of view. Perhaps had you made that clearer (not only for me, but others) this part of the thread would not have gotten this far. -- Best regards, Chris Be sure each item is properly endorsed.