Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 19:04:06 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@puchar.net> To: Pete Wright <pete@nomadlogic.org> Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Niclas Zeising <zeising@freebsd.org>, Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Vladimir Kondratyev <vladimir@kondratyev.su> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.20.1902181902140.65702@puchar.net> In-Reply-To: <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org> References: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> <11a49d72-3158-1b9a-f933-6702d8f5c238@nomadlogic.org>
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> motivated me to do this: > > 1) my observation that many developers at conferences and online were using > macOS as their primary desktop environment. when comparing this to the > OpenBSD and Linux community I felt pretty embarrassed, but it did explain the > stagnant nature of our graphics subsystem. people seemed afraid to touch > things due the brittle nature of its hardware support. > > 2) i was in need to an *affordable* machine with a warranty. fortunately > there are many affordable laptops at staples, best-buy and amazon - but they > were all post haswell systems, rendering them basically useless from a > FreeBSD perspective. I've bought recently (like half year ago) cheapest laptop available. Everything supported with FreeBSD out of the box, except little problem with sound but dev.hdac.0.polling=1 made it work. What a problem? Even lowest end today computer is really high end for normal programs. From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Mon Feb 18 22:54:12 2019 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0384114EE7B1; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from mail.soaustin.net (mail.soaustin.net [18.222.6.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.soaustin.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0750B89AE8; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@lonesome.com) Received: from lonesome.com (unknown [18.188.142.31]) by mail.soaustin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B719C17080; Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:09 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:08 +0000 From: Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd-rwg@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> Cc: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@freebsd.org>, Niclas Zeising <zeising@freebsd.org>, "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, Stefan Blachmann <sblachmann@gmail.com>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>, Vladimir Kondratyev <vladimir@kondratyev.su> Subject: Re: What is evdev and autoloading? Message-ID: <20190218225407.GA7187@lonesome.com> References: <CANCZdfrEWX9jJVHUkFNijGpk9ii1H9PsUHtq=nD4M+nZacpCrQ@mail.gmail.com> <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201902181650.x1IGoRsZ006131@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0750B89AE8 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.74 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.86)[0.862,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.27)[ipnet: 18.220.0.0/14(0.06), asn: 16509(-1.34), country: US(-0.07)]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[lonesome.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.11)[0.106,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.65)[-0.646,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[11.6.222.18.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.2]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: mail.soaustin.net]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[9]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:18.220.0.0/14, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:59:15 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-hackers>, <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers>, <mailto:freebsd-hackers-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 22:54:12 -0000 On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 08:50:27AM -0800, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > I think one serious problem here is the summary dismissal of things > simply on the "5 year old" basis. IIUC the graphics changes are being forced upon FreeBSD by external projects (mainly Linux-based) that are making huge architectural changes that rely more and more on features from newer hardware. If our upstreams aren't willing to do the work to keep from violating POLA on older hardware, IMHO it's an awful lot to ask of our already thinly stretched graphics volunteers to provide it in their stead. w/rt graphics, we are at far more danger of being left further and further behind on modern hardware than we are at risk of losing users on older hardware here. Again all IMHO. disclaimer: I don't use any fancy graphics stuff, so (as the old folks say around here) "I have no dog in this hunt". mcl
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