From nobody Mon Sep 9 18:59:39 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X2bjp2tYtz5Tk5M for ; Mon, 09 Sep 2024 18:59:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X2bjn6p5yz4Qs7; Mon, 9 Sep 2024 18:59:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B980F892DC; Mon, 09 Sep 2024 18:59:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.18.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 489Ixdia086264; Mon, 9 Sep 2024 18:59:39 GMT (envelope-from phk) Message-Id: <202409091859.489Ixdia086264@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Olivier Certner cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: It's not Rust, it's FreeBSD (and LLVM) In-reply-to: <2611284.jQUcPV6jne@ravel> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <202409031532.483FW0If007252@critter.freebsd.dk> <2611284.jQUcPV6jne@ravel> List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <86262.1725908379.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2024 18:59:39 +0000 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X2bjn6p5yz4Qs7 Olivier Certner writes: > > We need to find a contemporary and useful answer to "What is FreeBSD?" > > I think you've answered part of that satisfactorily in your initial mail= already: > > > Delivering a single consistent userland with the kernel has stood > > us well for three decades, and we should stick with that. > > I'll add: > - A system that is easy to build and tweak in practice (for developers a= t the very least). But what are the boundaries of this "system" of which you talk ? I am more or less responsible for nearly two hundred computers running FreeBSD right now. Only two of those have zero ports/packages installed, one monitors my floor heating system, the other firewalls some old crap. To me "src+kernel" is just the foundations. "A system" is what people build on top of the foundations. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= .