From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Aug 25 20:03:01 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFCB1065693; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:03:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rivanr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-bw0-f206.google.com (mail-bw0-f206.google.com [209.85.218.206]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6342B8FC28; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:03:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: by bwz2 with SMTP id 2so2021757bwz.43 for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:02:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Klu4S2qyV1rJpMUmZVqLOmAtDi4BSxQy75ATa0VoKpI=; b=Ay7Qz4Tt0hLkyINzzokJeBczmebQF6OiGykNi+rcQ1AeYu19rdeuw3vfXtwWmBfOT+ J/0f/Pmb0/Hk2m7Jc4MFfykDzkZQQzqTvcbMjET+x7KqTmCWP6nXbK56SHa2k8/lOeZe 94dqc8LiDFzLkYquG4R9qw3rf1GjVX40no+fE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=uZ8Q1JXxc6vOdLLyBbCbqmCIgKyC01zzFTZePx6V3tMleFpbAApKOc6lzREpIAz8TL KUqD6pkxqoT+lx15KjI9Y2eljfXMGCN1ySWoms7188HgE8GihRkQqIzbgQXLt6WL4egs xp0YaIhHz80pa62cispYC9ra5S77sOqFo+dlQ= Received: by 10.103.78.35 with SMTP id f35mr2926385mul.89.1251230579193; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from azdaja.softwarehood.com ([95.180.33.218]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n10sm1210924mue.19.2009.08.25.13.02.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4A944370.2000306@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:02:56 +0200 From: Ivan Radovanovic User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (X11/20090708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <20090825034054.2d57e733@dev.lan.Awfulhak.org> <4A94325D.6070201@FreeBSD.org> <4A9436A7.2020108@gmail.com> <4A94385A.1000405@FreeBSD.org> <4A943C18.2050103@gmail.com> <4A943D06.405@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4A943D06.405@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Brian Somers Subject: Re: Deprecating ps(1)s -w switch X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:03:01 -0000 Doug Barton napisa: > Ivan Radovanovic wrote: > >> I totally disagree with you - being against change means that you >> believe it is done the best way it could be done. >> > This argument is so non-sequitur that I'm tempted not to respond, but > no, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that there > are valid reasons to leave the defaults as they are, AND if you don't > like the defaults there are easy ways to manipulate that in your own > environment. > You wrote : Longer version, I don't see anything wrong with the defaults the way that they are, and the fact that there is a teeny-tiny learning curve for people who need to see the full output isn't really an issue that deserves the time already spent on it. Bruce pointed out in the PR that most users would be surprised if 'ps -ax | grep foo' suddenly sprouted a lot more stuff that 'ps -ax' didn't have, and I agree. As a matter of personal preference I find the current defaults to be just lovely, and occasionally use -w or -ww if I need to see more. If you want the default to be something different, that's what aliases are for. So, valid arguments against change should be: 1. users will be surprised if ps starts displaying more stuff no matter if that stuff is correct and less stuff (current state) is incorrect 2. your personal preference is that current defaults are lovely Sorry, I don't find these arguments valid >> Although there is another way to solve this "problem" - manual can be >> changed to state in the first row "process status formated for terminal >> output" instead of "process status" which is now title for ps. That way >> it would be obvious at the first look that ps is tightly coupled with >> terminal it is running on and nobody would need to learn this harder way. >> > Feel free to take a crack at this and send the results to the list for > review. Improving the documentation is always a worthy goal. > I would do that for sure if everyone thinks this ps behavior is something that should be kept at current state even if it could be made better Ivan