From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 12 11:32:44 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 962E675B for ; Sun, 12 May 2013 11:32:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-gg0-x229.google.com (mail-gg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c02::229]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C632799 for ; Sun, 12 May 2013 11:32:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-gg0-f169.google.com with SMTP id a5so1246825ggn.0 for ; Sun, 12 May 2013 04:32:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=x-received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :reply-to:organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AJSOIY56AVQ9aKXqzNx0nKDBvSCfM5i3feq+x60dRZc=; b=nm2ZnMcnQt2IuWt8EwWq1IhJv/Reqh9qJcI7ywiqVIYA3Eyhvyuwol0uBsKGEYZLri GOque00gPbCXDT1kKXBloBJ7rCJOQtNVlM1u65XZqXkdUdJVhNzs9iR46TMRWqbTtnAO u36A9pFyJ/cyYMo2Bvr/ZDNN1XNYPFUAJRW0I= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :reply-to:organization:x-mailer:face:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=AJSOIY56AVQ9aKXqzNx0nKDBvSCfM5i3feq+x60dRZc=; b=Y1WHchBCFonWOJfoHejC0Wb2jlHB/fP8UhkwTlV1oFSuKPqth5vslvyhMgxSWaprfb CtuLfNJbm5EG7V8HQECrdK5wnWji2tONTeyvXgmzwiA7i198qUHc7CPWR6nFEdAUPaxV tT/7J86QRK86RYrAHNG0OK1klXX0WEna//qm+rZ6yKVvbe5i2GugC1ibTpQ1kTxPeRUv HiDokwUeVMPXD9z+4RCTbF9I2FJghXQC5fCjnnFaSKb7/2JUTtCw8Q2orUYtW/dfUSMY IMHP698WYRPkt2WKoJAq9YDW/yLNcZTE3wsN1h3gJE7yCG4SzTUGQp+HbU8ugxrecyUW 1UuQ== X-Received: by 10.236.51.103 with SMTP id a67mr1632802yhc.79.1368358362852; Sun, 12 May 2013 04:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-076-182-104-150.nc.res.rr.com. [76.182.104.150]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id w62sm14726822yhd.27.2013.05.12.04.32.41 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 12 May 2013 04:32:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3b7jgr5XR0z2CG5n for ; Sun, 12 May 2013 07:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 07:32:40 -0400 From: Jerry To: FreeBSD Subject: Re: List Spam Filtering Message-ID: <20130512073240.0c15604c@scorpio> In-Reply-To: <20130512073931.c85d1a0b1639a79efc489df1@sohara.org> References: <20130511170944.20e6037204c186923a385d7e@sohara.org> <201305111744.r4BHik5Y069562@fire.js.berklix.net> <20130512073931.c85d1a0b1639a79efc489df1@sohara.org> Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.17; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3) Face: 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 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmoD24j+VeXnmkcYU46kpTW0m8Ek03FUZbBuj5rK8UGitjqvHQBjz4k51VrkyX9XnF4dYjw X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: FreeBSD List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 11:32:44 -0000 On Sun, 12 May 2013 07:39:31 +0100 Steve O'Hara-Smith articulated: > On Sat, 11 May 2013 19:44:46 +0200 > "Julian H. Stacey" wrote: > > > Hi, > > "Steve O'Hara-Smith" wrote: > > > On Thu, 09 May 2013 02:26:26 +0200 > > > "Julian H. Stacey" wrote: > > > > > > > If list write access was changed to Subscribers Only: > > > > - List could silently discard such spam. > > > > - Postmaster@ (& webmaster@ weeding web archives) would have > > > > less work. > > > > - Less individual need to select spam phrases to copy to > > > > personal filters (& less time searching WTF dialect American > > > > above meant in English ;-). > > > > > > The downside is that it would require people to subscribe > > > in order to ask a question, > > > > True. I suggest the up side outweighs the down side though. > > From the point of view of subscribers perhaps, however from > the point of view of users who don't wish to subscribe in order to > ask a single question it is the other way round. I am not really a big fan of paying for a hunting license since I only hunt once a year; however, they still make me do it. As a POC earlier this year, I subscribed to this list under a different name & address, returned to my MUA and the responding message from this list was waiting. I replied to it and was there upon subscribed. Total time, less than 1-1/2 minutes. And that included me taking a sip of coffee. The time to remove myself from the list was similar. Hell, it takes me longer than that to gather all of the info I might need to either ask or respond to a question on this list. > > > this is also the reason for the convention of using > > > "Reply to all" in FreeBSD mailing lists. It's been a convention > > > for a *long* time, at least since FreeBSD 1.1 was shiny and new > > > in 1993. > > > > I'm not intending to question or suggest any change re CC behaviour. > > (Maybe you mis-read or mis-infered what I intended, > > Not at all, just pointing out that the two things have a > common reason in the FreeBSD lists. Personally I doubt that either > will change any time soon. > > > or maybe I mis-wrote, or mis-implied, whatever, please forget > > that bit, though as background I'd observe: > > Questions@ didn't exist for quite a while after FreeBSD > > started, Hackers@ & some others preceded it. > > A good many others indeed - but all the "user" lists have > always had the same conventions. > > > Various people prune CC when they get littered with too > > many CC. ) I never respond to CC'ers. If they cannot take the time to subscribe, I cannot afford the time to respond. > True enough - and occasionally this loses the unsubscribed OP. Perhaps our list should include a disclaimer (I hate them) that states: WARNING: CC ARE YOUR OWN RISK Actually, I think this is kind of funn: From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: "Julian H. Stacey" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Technically, I am responding to a CC'er who happens to be the list operator/owner or whatever terminology turns you on. My sieve filters are designed to filter out an CC messages; however, they are also designed to accept any mail from FreeBSD*. Since I was not in the CC address (directly), I ended up getting a CC'd mesage. I really have to rework my filters. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __________________________________________________________________