From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 18:54:33 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03232E95CDD for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:54:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.107.128.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D33347C6CA for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:54:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94CB66289B; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:54:31 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vBAIsUOK014517; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 13:54:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vBAIsUB9014513; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 13:54:30 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@fledge.watson.org) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 13:54:30 -0500 (EST) From: doug Reply-To: doug@safeport.com To: Baho Utot cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New packaging approach In-Reply-To: <07f48e07-ce70-7a26-ea19-fd389375afb4@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: References: <07f48e07-ce70-7a26-ea19-fd389375afb4@columbus.rr.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Sun, 10 Dec 2017 13:54:31 -0500 (EST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:54:33 -0000 On Sun, 10 Dec 2017, Baho Utot wrote: > On 12/10/2017 12:33 AM, DTD wrote: >> >> On Sat, 9 Dec 2017, Polytropon wrote: >> >>> However, I am not sure how the new packaging approach will handle this. As >>> you might have read, pkg will be used for installing and upgrading OS >>> files in the future, so there will not be the big difference >>> "freebsd-update" and "pkg update" / "pkg upgrade". >> >> Where can I read about this? If this leads to dependency issues similar to >> those encountered with desktops, my reaction is more of 'oh s--t' rather >> then 'oh boy'. Back to the days when the odd or even versions numbers were >> for those of us (read me) who do not track Stable for similar reasons. >> > > The way the packaging of base is currently being done will*guarantee a great > level of OH SHIT. First, I will qualify my comments by saying I am an end user. I did take Kurt McKusick's internals course a decade or so ago. Never ended up going anywhere with C but it was/is a good way to understand the workings and to be a better sysadmin. My experience with FreeBSD is that once release engineering was fully integrated into the upgrade process in the 4.x's, maybe the version 5 era (memory goes shortly after the tolerance for coding 12 hrs/day) I have never had any issues through cvsup, Subversion, and freebsd-update. If you follow the releases, they work. Maybe if you are developing a port or are a contributor to the base, things are not so rosy. But here in userland things are better managed than IBM did with MFT, MVT into MVS. I'm pretty sure those guys got paid pretty well and did not have to have a day job to do what they really wanted to. That's a really wordy way to say I disagree with the idea that development of the base OS has been mis-handled. In server-land since 4.5 no gotcha's here (as a keeper of servers). Things are a bit rougher if you want to run a FreeBSD workstation. On my current desktop I have gimp, libre office and my window manager of choice. 613 packages and items built from ports. The pkg frame-work is much improved over the old pkg_add et all. However, the number of combinations of {613,n} where n is the number of shared libraries, dynamic and static is a large number (finite but unbounded). And all involved have to get all the dependencies right to have zero problems. My concern is, if it works don't fix it. And, if you must, I would like to start getting up to speed on it ASAP. I have access to every freebsd list but have not found a discussion of this. My only request is to be pointed to where I can follow the discussion.