From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Apr 26 18:52:58 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7392D106567D for ; Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:52:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216CF8FC2A for ; Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:52:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 3so1459421qwe.7 for ; Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:52:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Y2GYwXI5Wb3A66NJKeMtz4aoFKQNcdUzelSwsiq9ubE=; b=HmV6LZtPQRg7Sl9A4+A8A5qQS0ZlwTQJNldfneaY2pcb2jwN5D0oLL5Ffo3+N5c3Dj MLu2xQNw8gd62EgvecuS3h5L0bu6CNQV5NcoRoXO9DbhWNA0j6IRhg05hc9417oxjv7C YPYIuANl30IiCHTom0q07unKHjLus9xQqHx8o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=OZ/eC2T++w0K96xSB+QdLay9Lixk7SpQ+mU/a4Zz5AlVt5baSw3K5C0SuqeF8ODqpA hXO+0kbggxHzHi7RI6FUFzqWp7JHziNktSA9oycqT/P1i0HyOY5+n2BpGe04/y0eUEpT xlXAR9rTd4Lci7uzVeva+BzbomXHyzsFcwR98= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.84.196 with SMTP id k4mr2032545qcl.86.1240771977213; Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:52:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87zle3mii0.fsf@kobe.laptop> References: <20090426001855.GA89151@owl.midgard.homeip.net> <87zle3mii0.fsf@kobe.laptop> Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:52:56 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk To: Giorgos Keramidas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List , Tim Judd Subject: Re: Modern FreeBSD Installer? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:52:58 -0000 On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:18:55 +0200, Erik Trulsson > wrote: > > Better would be to check (somehow) for the presence of a keyboard and > > a screen. If those are not present forget about X. If they are > > present then the user at least has a possibility of using X. > > Deferring to the user all the decisions that are impossible to make with > a reasonable chance of doing the Right Thing for everyone seems ok too. > > Solaris has been shipping for quite some time with an installer that can > run on serial consoles, an installer that can launch a simple > terminal-based session under X11, and an installer that can launch a > Java GUI version in all its bloated glory. > > The decision of which installer to launch is left to the user who sits > on the boot console, who is presented with a simple menu like: > > +-------------------------------------------------------+ > | | > | Please select installation type (default = 3): _ | > | | > | 1. Text-only console installation. | > | | > | 2. Terminal based GUI installation. | > | | > | 3. Dialog driven GUI installation. | > | | > +-------------------------------------------------------+ > > There is also a timeout that launches the user-friendly GUI dialogs > after a few seconds. > > I think this is a reasonable approach to the problem of which > installation mode to launch. The default is `user friendly', there is a > timeout so the installer won't get stuck forever in the prompt, and > there is still an option for a plain console-based installation for > everyone who wants to go that way. > > _ > Last week I have installed Solaris 10 ( 2008-10 ) on a PC ( x86 ) having an Intel main board . It did not recognize Philips 220WS LCD ( 1680 x 1050 ) monitor and selected itself a text-mode install and also booted in text mode . I moved its hard disk to a PC with an Asus main board having an attached CRT Philips 109B6 ( maximum resolution : 1920 x 1440 ) monitor . Since boards were different , Solaris 10 could not boot . I started an upgrade installation . During that time it become necessary to leave PC for a while assuming that installation will wait . With its count down and start by itself in its GUI mode . it started to install automatically . At the end , the install become useless because its default detections were not what parts were there ( I think it used previously detected parts without checking the present parts except monitor and perhaps some others , I do not know exactly .) . For such reasons , personally , I hate (1) auto-start installations . (2) auto-detect parts without asking correctness of detection when its conclusion is not verifiable by the installers ( for example (ADSL router modem is not detected correctly even its network card is detected and installation continued with assumption that there is no such a device . ) ( erroneously detection of monitor resolutions and using a default resolution which is not usable due to mismatch to display characteristics of the monitor ) ... ) With respect to experiences gained continuously installing operating systems , my idea about FreeBSD sysinstal is that it is an excellent installation system developed by very conscious persons which they know what to do very well . The points I suggested for improvements are toward to make it easy for the beginners . For a computing system , to satisfy needs of both beginners and expert users is not a very easy task . Making a part easy for a group may make it difficult for other group . Using defaults is not always correct due to hardware detection difficulties . My inclination is toward the beginners as much as possible because this approach will enlarge FreeBSD user group . In reality , design of a user interface is within subject areas of Ergonomy , Human-Computer Interaction , and User Interface Design which there are plenty amount of researches about those subjects , and many scientific journals and books . When I was in University a research assistant was working toward a PhD in Ergonomy by researching user interface software design principles to reduce the human errors during control of a system ( for example , effects of menu depths ) . Thank you very much . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk