From nobody Sun Dec 3 19:26:58 2023 X-Original-To: virtualization@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SjxgK00J4z53FgM for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2023 19:29:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Received: from webmail5.jnielsen.net (webmail5.jnielsen.net [69.87.218.172]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.freebsdsolutions.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SjxgJ3f4tz3VvV for ; Sun, 3 Dec 2023 19:29:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtpclient.apple ([IPv6:2607:fa18:e2fe:2d6a:2d69:c533:3c4f:d1a0]) (authenticated bits=0) by webmail5.jnielsen.net (8.17.2/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 3B3JRYWk024410 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:27:37 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from lists@jnielsen.net) X-Authentication-Warning: webmail5.jnielsen.net: Host [IPv6:2607:fa18:e2fe:2d6a:2d69:c533:3c4f:d1a0] claimed to be smtpclient.apple Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9EF37E4C-C0A2-4B75-9B89-1824DCA33D35 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: John Nielsen List-Id: Discussion List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-virtualization List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: from coLinux co CoFreeBSD. Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2023 12:26:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3258388E-3ABD-44E1-AA3B-8CC5536DB4B1@jnielsen.net> References: Cc: virtualization@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: To: Mario Marietto X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21B101) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6364, ipnet:69.87.218.0/24, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SjxgJ3f4tz3VvV --Apple-Mail-9EF37E4C-C0A2-4B75-9B89-1824DCA33D35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Dec 3, 2023, at 12:00=E2=80=AFPM, Mario Marietto wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFmaybe someone of you know the old project called "coLinux" : > Cooperative Linux is the first working free and open source method for opt= imally running Linux on Microsoft Windows natively. More generally, Cooperat= ive Linux (short-named coLinux) is a port of the Linux kernel that allows it= to run cooperatively alongside another operating system on a single machine= . For instance, it allows one to freely run Linux on Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7= , without using a commercial PC virtualization software such as VMware, in a= way which is much more optimal than using any general purpose PC virtualiza= tion software. In its current condition, it allows us to run the KNOPPIX Jap= anese Edition on Windows. >=20 >=20 >=20 > CoLinux is very old and not maintained for a lot of time and I'm not inter= ested in resurrecting it (and I don't have the competences to do it),BUT I'm= interested to gather some information about a similar project that I have i= n mind. What about if,instead of having a Linux kernel which can run Windows= cooperatively,we have a Linux kernel that can run more Linux distributions (= maybe only 2 as a starting point,as CoLinux already does) at the same time,w= ithout using virtualization software ? Is the technology behind Colinux the s= ame that's under the lxc or docker containers or the WSL2 subsystem ? What a= re the differences ? >=20 > I don't use WSL2,I don't use Windows so much. I like Linux and FreeBSD. So= ,an even nicer idea is to create a coLinux variant that allows the Linux ker= nel to cooperate with FreeBSD. This is even nicer than making a cooperation b= etween 2 Linuxes. >=20 I=E2=80=99m not familiar with coLinux but at this point I=E2=80=99m not sure= what problems it would solve that aren=E2=80=99t solved by virtualization a= nd/or containerization. All mainstream CPUs have had virtualization support f= or multiple generations. That, coupled with improvements in para-virtualized= drivers and hardware plus features like PCI pass-through make it possible t= o virtualize any workload with negligible performance impact. You can run Windows, BSD or Linux under bhyve on FreeBSD or KVM on Linux. If= you=E2=80=99re starting with Windows, WSL2 is worth exploring as it also le= ts you run Linux software at native speed. If you=E2=80=99re interested in the middle ground between native and fully v= irtualized, you may want to read up on and try rump kernels in NetBSD or vir= tual kernels in DragonflyBSD. JN= --Apple-Mail-9EF37E4C-C0A2-4B75-9B89-1824DCA33D35 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Dec 3, 2023, at 12:00=E2=80=AFPM, Mario Marietto &= lt;marietto2008@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFmaybe someone of you know the old pro= ject called "coLinux" :

Cooperati= ve Linux is the first working free and open source method for optimally=20 running Linux on Microsoft Windows natively. More generally, Cooperative Linux (short-named coLinux) is a port of the Linux kernel that allows=20 it to run cooperatively alongside another operating system on a single=20 machine. For instance, it allows one to freely run Linux on Windows=20 2000/XP/Vista/7, without using a commercial PC virtualization software=20 such as VMware, in a way which is much more optimal than using any=20 general purpose PC virtualization software. In its current condition, it allows us to run the KNOPPIX Japanese Edition on Windows.


CoLinux is very old and not maintained for a lot of time and I'm not=20 interested in resurrecting it (and I don't have the competences to do=20 it),BUT I'm interested to gather some information about a similar=20 project that I have in mind. What about if,instead of having a Linux=20 kernel which can run Windows cooperatively,we have a Linux kernel that=20 can run more Linux distributions (maybe only 2 as a starting point,as=20 CoLinux already does) at the same time,without using virtualization=20 software ? Is the technology behind Colinux the same that's under the=20 lxc or docker containers or the WSL2 subsystem ? What are the=20 differences ?

I don't use WSL2,I don't use Windows so much. I like Linux and=20 FreeBSD. So,an even nicer idea is to create a coLinux variant that=20 allows the Linux kernel to cooperate with FreeBSD. This is even nicer=20 than making a cooperation between 2 Linuxes.


I=E2=80=99m not familiar with coLinux but at this po= int I=E2=80=99m not sure what problems it would solve that aren=E2=80=99t so= lved by virtualization and/or containerization. All mainstream CPUs have had= virtualization support for multiple generations. That, coupled with improve= ments in para-virtualized drivers and hardware plus features like PCI pass-t= hrough make it possible to virtualize any workload with negligible performan= ce impact.

You can run Windows, BSD or Linux under b= hyve on FreeBSD or KVM on Linux. If you=E2=80=99re starting with Windows, WS= L2 is worth exploring as it also lets you run Linux software at native speed= .

If you=E2=80=99re interested in the middle ground= between native and fully virtualized, you may want to read up on and try ru= mp kernels in NetBSD or virtual kernels in DragonflyBSD.

JN
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