From owner-cvs-all@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jun 7 01:44:52 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Delivered-To: cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FEF16A41F; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:44:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B6B113C447; Thu, 7 Jun 2007 01:44:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54EE1A3C19; Wed, 6 Jun 2007 18:46:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rot13.obsecurity.org (rot13.obsecurity.org [192.168.1.5]) by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0E7511B4; Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: by rot13.obsecurity.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B734AC207; Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:44:50 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: Eric Anholt Message-ID: <20070607014450.GA17218@rot13.obsecurity.org> References: <200706061625.l56GP3lo043614@repoman.freebsd.org> <20070606200421.GA5453@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1181165084.76200.1.camel@ikaros.oook.cz> <20070606214112.GB6716@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1181173452.30365.20.camel@vonnegut> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1181173452.30365.20.camel@vonnegut> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: cvs-ports@FreeBSD.org, Pav Lucistnik , cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, ports-committers@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/x11/libX11 Makefile distinfo manpages pkg-plist ports/x11/libX11/files patch-src_ImUtil.c X-BeenThere: cvs-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: CVS commit messages for the entire tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:44:52 -0000 --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 04:44:11PM -0700, Eric Anholt wrote: > On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 17:41 -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 11:24:44PM +0200, Pav Lucistnik wrote: > > > Kris Kennaway p??e v st 06. 06. 2007 v 16:04 -0400: > > > > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 04:25:03PM +0000, Pav Lucistnik wrote: > > > > > pav 2007-06-06 16:25:03 UTC > > > > >=20 > > > > > FreeBSD ports repository > > > > >=20 > > > > > Modified files: > > > > > x11/libX11 Makefile distinfo manpages pkg-plist=20 > > > > > Removed files: > > > > > x11/libX11/files patch-src_ImUtil.c=20 > > > > > Log: > > > > > - Update to 1.1.2 > > > > > - Don't remove lib/X11, it's in mtree > > > >=20 > > > > BTW, we had decided not to do minor updates to the X.org ports with= out > > > > a good reason. The disruption caused by frequent tiny updates is > > > > tremendous. > > >=20 > > > Why not? There are no consequences in updating to dot-dot releases he= re. > > > I was told by flz and anholt that I'm free to help out keeping X ports > > > up to date. > >=20 > > The main consequences are: > >=20 > > * Forcing the package clusters to frequently rebuild all of X, slowing > > down all package builds and the rate at which we can do other testing > > on pointyhat. > >=20 > > * The inevitable problems with commits to "deep" ports like this one > > which will take out most of the ports tree when they fail to build, > > leading to yet more delays in publication of usable package sets. > >=20 > > What was decided was to only update in batches when x.org makes a new > > "kamikaze" release (or whatever they are calling it ;), unless there > > is a really good reason to update a port otherwise. >=20 > That's an unfortunate policy, given that generally X developers can only > be bothered to make releases when there's an important fix to push > out(*). In this libX11 case, this point release included stability and > security fixes. I suggested to Pav that libs updates were a good thing > to do, since they're generally bugfixing and such, unlike drivers and > the server (and the protos they depend on) where more context is > sometimes needed. >=20 > * The exception to this in the past has been at katamari time, when we > were rolling up any modules with trivial changes that developers hadn't > been bothered to release already. I think I've successfully killed that > part of the katamari process. As I said, if there is a really good reason then we can include point updates, but both FreeBSD developers and X.org developers (I guess that means you) need to understand that there is a high cost for us to incorporate them into the ports tree. The cost becomes prohibitive if updates are happening somewhere in one of the core X.org ports on a weekly basis, because the package build clusters will spend most of their time continuously rebuilding everything that uses X instead of letting us do real work. Since you (X.org) have made the decision to effectively push out a large part of the X.org "product" release engineering (integration testing and decision-making about components) onto each individual distro, this is part of the cost of that decision that the X.org release engineers (you again, I guess) needs to be aware of. The FreeBSD project does not have the resources (or desire) to effectively do full-time incremental X.org release engineering because of X.org changes being continuously pushed into ports. The best we can do is periodic batch updates when X.org announces a significant accumulation of enhancements, with the occasional critical fix when necessary. I hope you will factor these constraints into your development process and work with us to achieve something we can both live with. Thanks, Kris --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.3 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFGZ2MSWry0BWjoQKURAlZqAJ4731nNYZZ2cOc+KKaZWbgEuJ2oowCfQuwB LTAHdZT6nz4tlPEvMG60/ZA= =5UgG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OgqxwSJOaUobr8KG--