From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sun Jan 6 20:42:44 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BB1F149A2AB for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D1ED8F57D for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:42:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED6A814831; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:42:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x06KgeJX095699 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:42:41 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id x06Kgeve095698; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 20:42:40 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: Wojciech Puchar cc: Cy Schubert , Hackers freeBSD , Igor Mozolevsky , Enji Cooper Subject: Re: Strategic Thinking (was: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components) In-reply-to: From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <201901061912.x06JCKCa004324@slippy.cwsent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <95696.1546807359.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 20:42:40 +0000 Message-ID: <95697.1546807360@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 6D1ED8F57D X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.01 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.57)[0.568,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.dk]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.32)[0.317,0]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: phk.freebsd.dk]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.74)[0.738,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1835, ipnet:130.225.0.0/16, country:EU]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[phk@phk.freebsd.dk,phk@critter.freebsd.dk]; IP_SCORE(0.09)[asn: 1835(0.48), country: EU(-0.00)] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2019 20:42:44 -0000 -------- In message , Wojciech Puch= ar writes: >and this was wrong. under unix system it could just run in separate user = >accounts. > >The latter virtualization or jails is just wrong attempt to solve a = >problem that was created. Instead of simply doing it right. Ok, that is my que... Jails have one important property which as far as I know is unique to all other virtualizations: You can reach into the jail, unseen. That means that if your jail has been compromised, you can study the running processes while they run, without entering the jail through any mechanism the attacker controls. (trojaned sshd(8) and so forth.) I have a mailbox full of anecdotes about how people have been having fun with attackers in jails that way: Moving files around, changing modes on files, killing processes, and the winner so far: swapping emacs(1) and vi(1) randomly. As far as I know, that is a uniqu security feature of jais? -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= .