From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Nov 19 10: 3:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AF6F37B401 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:03:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B34643E75 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:03:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([12.242.158.67]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021119180341.LPIT1052.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@localhost.localdomain>; Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:03:42 +0000 Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id gAIIwqd8053390; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:58:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) Received: (from jojo@localhost) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.6/8.12.5/Submit) id gAIIwWqi053385; Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:58:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from swear@attbi.com) X-Authentication-Warning: localhost.localdomain: jojo set sender to swear@attbi.com using -f To: Eric Anderson Cc: Brad Knowles , FreeBSD Chat , Mark Murray Subject: Re: FreeBSD: Server or Desktop OS? References: <20021116232242.S23359-100000@hub.org> <04f801c28e20$0a3665b0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <3DD7CF81.7030407@cream.org> <056001c28e60$2af21cf0$0a00000a@atkielski.com> <1037560276.1094.19.camel@skalman.campus.luth.se> <3DD7F107.DCE620A6@centtech.com> <3DD91EC8.3040105@centtech.com> From: swear@attbi.com (Gary W. Swearingen) Date: 18 Nov 2002 10:58:32 -0800 In-Reply-To: <3DD91EC8.3040105@centtech.com> Message-ID: Lines: 31 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Eric Anderson writes: > Me too.. I'm willing to organize it and get things going.. You might consider having two parts of "it". There is the testing, which some have already offerred to help with, and it sounds like Eric is willing to organize that. But I suspect what is needed more than that is to organize the resolution of problems detected by both the organized testers and by un-organized testers (AKA "users") so detected problems get fixed (and so developers don't have to spend as much time working with detectors of problems, both real and false alarms). Many people who find bugs in the field don't report them because they don't know about reporting mechanisms (PRs or freebsd-stable) or are afraid to deal with the gurus or have had bad or useless experiences. They are often unsure whether they have seen a bug or maybe it's only configuration or hardware problems. The people on -STABLE don't probably let many problems drop through the cracks unless the user is either very clear about the bug, has a fix, or is very persistant. So if someone is willing to do organizational-type work, I'd think it would be good to organize a team to field such user problems and get the testers to work with the user in duplicating the error in their test systems or determining whether it is a bug or not and have the tester (maybe user too) work with the developers to make sure it gets resolved. This same organization would track the resolution of problems found by organized testing. Maybe the PR system could be used by this organization, using a new value for PR "class" or "category". Users would be told to report OS stability problems to -STABLE (or -CURRENT) (or maybe the team's mailing list) and the team would be expected to get them into their tracking system. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message