From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 30 17:40:44 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E291065674; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:40:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.org) Received: from dragon.nuxi.org (trang.nuxi.org [74.95.12.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0502B8FC22; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:40:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from obrien@NUXI.org) Received: from dragon.nuxi.org (obrien@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dragon.nuxi.org (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id n0UHdvlw009726; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:39:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien@dragon.nuxi.org) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.org (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id n0UHdusH009725; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:39:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:39:56 -0800 From: "David O'Brien" To: "M. Warner Losh" Message-ID: <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org> References: <200901130653.n0D6rrNX092719@svn.freebsd.org> <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> <20090130.085130.-4349483.imp@bsdimp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20090130.085130.-4349483.imp@bsdimp.com> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.0-CURRENT User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Cc: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, amdmi3@amdmi3.ru, src-committers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: obrien@FreeBSD.org List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:40:46 -0000 On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > In message: <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> > Dmitry Marakasov writes: > : * David E. O'Brien (obrien@FreeBSD.org) wrote: > : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: > : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. > : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to > : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example, > : generated by cmake: .. > : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this > : out, as this will really annoy many people. > > This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really > really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees. > > The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names > that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build > experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them. > > O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without > discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The > project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this > sort of thing is anti-social. s/1994/14-Nov-1998/ 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm restoring compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with it. I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output. [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?] I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s' would give? -- -- David (obrien@FreeBSD.org)