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Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:23:20 +0000 From: Rick Macklem To: Mike Remski , "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience Thread-Topic: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience Thread-Index: AQHWDqHkE78Y1PGKdEyvx5ZF92yttqhxT/XYgACgvACAANr99Q== Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:23:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <9bc85f04-ed38-4d5a-bec3-551079cdcb2b@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <9bc85f04-ed38-4d5a-bec3-551079cdcb2b@comcast.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2a4cbd68-bd2f-4b7e-468d-08d7dd8d0301 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: QB1PR01MB3748: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0369E8196C x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:QB1PR01MB3649.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(39860400002)(136003)(376002)(396003)(366004)(346002)(66446008)(966005)(66556008)(110136005)(478600001)(9686003)(55016002)(64756008)(81156014)(71200400001)(2906002)(76116006)(66476007)(7696005)(5660300002)(8676002)(52536014)(8936002)(66946007)(33656002)(86362001)(316002)(786003)(186003)(6506007); 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FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.107.0.0/16]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[uoguelph.ca]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[49.67.107.40.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.3.0]; IP_SCORE(-1.39)[ipnet: 40.64.0.0/10(-3.76), asn: 8075(-3.16), country: US(-0.05)]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[comcast.net]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[i=1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:23:23 -0000 Mike Remski wrote:=0A= >On Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:39:45 PM EDT, Rick Macklem wrote:=0A= >> Ed Maste wrote:=0A= >>> Jim Salter has an article in Ars Technica discussing his experience=0A= >>> with FreeBSD 12.1 as a desktop:=0A= >>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/not-actually-linux-distro-revie= w-freebsd-12-1-release/=0A= >>>=0A= >>> There are some points in there that might involve misunderstanding,=0A= >>> but there are also a number of real issues raised about the experience = ...=0A= >> Since this is a public mailing list, I'll repost here...=0A= >>=0A= >> One thought here that I'll throw out (I have no idea if others=0A= >> have suggested=0A= >> this before)=85=0A= >> What about creating a separate release for desktops/laptops that install= s=0A= >> X Windows etc from a simple installer "out of the box"?=0A= >> --> To keep it simple, don't try to support all hardware, just=0A= >> stuff that is widely=0A= >> available and already well supported by the drivers in FreeBSD.=0A= >> Obviously amd64 only plus a few widely available display=0A= >> chip sets that work=0A= >> well, etc and so on...=0A= >>=0A= >> If it doesn't support the hardware someone has, then they can go the reg= ular=0A= >> release/install route. (It would be nice to maintain an up to=0A= >> date list of what=0A= >> hardware it supports, but it might be easier to just have it=0A= >> start up live CD=0A= >> style and then see if the hardware it needs is there.=0A= >> --> Sorry, can't do this display chipset to that sound chip or...=0A= >>=0A= >> Just an idea, rick=0A= >> ps: I am not volunteering to help do this. I run FreeBSD on laptop/deskt= op=0A= >> systems, but bare bones. No X Windows...=0A= >=0A= >Something like what old PCBSD did? How about FuryBSD as a starting point?= =0A= >Joe Maloney is layering either XFCE or KDE (2 different ISO/install media)= =0A= >on top of a FreeBSD install, so out of the box, the install gives you=0A= >FreeBSD with either XFCE or KDE.=0A= Yes. I'll admit I didn't know FuryBSD existed until now, but if the web pag= e is=0A= accurate, it would be fine.=0A= =0A= Maybe all that should be done is a reference to it on FreeBSD's web page.= =0A= "If you are new to FreeBSD and want a desktop system, you could try..."=0A= FreeNAS should be mentioned as well, for people who want a NAS server, imho= .=0A= =0A= Although I said a new FreeBSD release, I don't see why it needs to be done = by=0A= the FreeBSD project itself, just that I didn't realize others were currentl= y doing this.=0A= =0A= Maybe someone should ask the author of this article to try FuryBSD?=0A= =0A= >Disclaimer: I've been using FreeBSD with X as a daily driver for a long= =0A= >time and honestly never found it that difficult to set up. Hardest was=0A= >when everything started to need the drm-kmod bits, but once I understood= =0A= >what I needed to do, it's not been an issue.=0A= I feel about the same w.r.t. NFS servers.=0A= However, I've known good technical people who just haven't used FreeBSD=0A= who have found FreeNAS worked just fine whereas setting up a server using= =0A= a FreeBSD release didn't work for them.=0A= =0A= rick=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list=0A= https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers=0A= To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"= =0A=