Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 15:55:22 +0200 From: Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> To: Kris Moore <kris@ixsystems.com> Cc: FreeBSD Stable <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org>, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base Message-ID: <20190429155522.81dcc291a6b252884219de1e@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <CAOwcLsuRguYNn_0GX6ieEWgMcSXGxkf6iHrx2ZwSxBgeY%2BsD1g@mail.gmail.com> References: <002901d4fdfb$e52eb890$af8c29b0$@ixsystems.com> <20190429141239.f9de62f6b6721112d7143cf6@bidouilliste.com> <CAOwcLsuRguYNn_0GX6ieEWgMcSXGxkf6iHrx2ZwSxBgeY%2BsD1g@mail.gmail.com>
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On Mon, 29 Apr 2019 09:25:05 -0400 Kris Moore <kris@ixsystems.com> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:12 AM Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Kris, > > > > On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:52:21 -0400 > > <kris@ixsystems.com> wrote: > > > > > FreeBSD Community, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pleased to announce a CFT for builds of FreeBSD 12-stable and > > 13-current > > > using "TrueOS-inspired" packaged base. These are stock FreeBSD images > > which > > > will allow users to perform all updating via the 'pkg' command directly. > > > Rather than trying to answer all questions in this announcement, we've > > > created a FAQ page with more details. Please refer to this page, and let > > us > > > know if you have additional questions that we can include on that page > > going > > > forward. > > > > > > > While I appreciate the effort I have some doubt about your > > "re-implementation" of pkgbase. I don't see any improvement compared to > > what is in base currently, I even see downside of your implementation. > > > > - How do you plan with the need of updating kernel first, reboot and > > updating the rest of the userland after ? (Needed for major and minor > > upgrade, 12.0 to 12.1 for example, and simple update in -STABLE and > > -HEAD branch). This is still a problem with the base pkgbase. > > > > We've written our own tool "sysutils/sysup" in GO which handles this. It > performs updates using Boot-Environments to ensure that kernel/world are > updated at same time. > Which could never be imported into FreeBSD. > > > > - This is even worse because you are using the same repository for > > base and pkg so if a user pkg update and both kernel and pkg(8) needs > > to be updated and pkg use a new syscall or capsicum thing it will be > > updated first and couldn't proceed with the rest of the update (this is > > a supposition, I haven't personally tested). > > > > See above. > > > > - It seems that multiple kernels isn't supported in your > > implementation, this is already supported in pkgbase but still need > > some love. This is an important point as it will allow user to choose > > easily the kernel that they want to use and will also allow us > > developper to push kernels with new features to help testing. > > > > Incorrect, on the 13-CURRENT build if you install kernel-debug, you'll get > the Witness-enabled kernel installed alongside non-debugging one. Mhm no, the kernel-debug packages only add the debug file in /usr/lib/debug/boot/ I'm talking about installing multiple kernels in // (i.e. /boot/kernel.GENERIC /boot/kernel.MYFEATUREIWANTTOTEST) like describe here : https://wiki.freebsd.org/PkgBase#Project_goals_and_additional_unresolved_issues in the "How to handle /boot/kernel and /boot/kernel.$KERNCONF" point. > > > - Since you reduced the granularity on the userland bits it would mean > > that if we use your implementation for -p updates we would download the > > whole userland packages instead of just updating the package that was > > patched. For example with pkgbase, updating from 12.0 to 12.0p1 will > > only update the FreeBSD-runtime package. Yes this package is still big > > to download when you compare to what have changed but until pkg(8) have > > delta pkg supports (and if it will have support, I don't know if > > this is a wish or not) this is the best way to go. > > > > Correct, this is by design. We used the in-tree pkg base for nearly a year, > and found that the granularity didn't really offer any savings from a > download or time perspective. Updating 100+ packages took far longer than a > single one, due to all the meta operations. Additionally in real-world > usage, we found that base packages tended to all get updated at the same > time, which took far longer via pkg, since it had to go and perform 100+ > fetch operations just to download the base system bits. > But you never need to update 100+ packages on a proper pkgbase setup for -p updates. Again on a 12.0 to 12.0-p1 update only one package will be updated. > > > - I see that you are sorting the plist for kernel and userland based > > on the line length [1], why is that ? > > > Whoops! I'll fix :) > > > > > > I think that the only advantage that your solution offers is that if > > we remove a componant of base (rcmds for example in 12-CURRENT) those > > files would be removed as they are in the userland-base package while > > for pkgbase the FreeBSD-rcmd package will be deleted in the repo and > > will not be deleted in the user computer. > > > > > Correct, this is one of the things which prompted us to go this direction. > Being able to handle crazy mixed WITH/WITHOUT flags was important to us, > current pkg base did not handle that so gracefully. Can you give me more info on this ? What where the WITH/WITHOUT flags that causes problems ? > Additionally we've > added some additional features, such as being able to 'pkg install os/src' > to get system sources used in exact build, as well as being able to rebuild > your local world / kernel packages using ports "make config" framework is > super handy. > That would not be hard to add to pkgbase, I'll add it to my todo list. > > > > > > > > Additionally, I will be hosting a Package Base working group at BSDCan > > 2019, > > > and welcome user and developer attendance to discuss this and other > > ongoing > > > package work: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/DevSummit/201905/PackageBase > > > > > > > I will be present and looking forward to work with you on this. > > > > Cheers, > > > > P.S. : FYI I'm working on pkgbase currently and I will have some > > patches to commit soon (bsdinstall support, memstick creation that > > install a pkgbase aware installaton etc ...). > > > > Great! Looking forward to discussion then! > > > > > > [1] : > > > > https://github.com/trueos/trueos-ports/blob/trueos-master/os/userland-base/Makefile#L35 > > > > -- > > Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@freebsd.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@freebsd.org>
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