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Date:      Wed, 2 May 2012 16:00:47 +0200
From:      Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr>
To:        Richard Yao <ryao@cs.stonybrook.edu>
Cc:        Jerry McAllister <jerrymc@msu.edu>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Mehmet Erol Sanliturk <m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com>, Andy@freebsd.org, Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>, Young <ayoung@mosaicarchive.com>
Subject:   Re: Ways to promote FreeBSD?
Message-ID:  <CAKR2__1rgORJ6FKDDYEb=uYG==RA=puOyzssaR-JjS3evLbg3Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4FA12980.6080101@cs.stonybrook.edu>
References:  <CAHMRaQf=M0ULOH=KnqzOXvczSM0Lb6apCoQkJegqyU3e8%2BgShA@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1204272025080.5846@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> <20120427203117.GA2055@gizmo.acns.msu.edu> <CAOgwaMv_9c_W4fek-kGhQV3B5bKv4RnEFn_6ixn2LS7qDPma6Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAKR2__3C2r1LTk3Sf0w52Jjp3KZhPduqrN0vsvr1VCCb%2BtF4UQ@mail.gmail.com> <4FA12980.6080101@cs.stonybrook.edu>

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On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Richard Yao <ryao@cs.stonybrook.edu> wrote:
>On 05/02/12 04:55, Giorgos Keramidas wrote:
>> Judging from the amount of effort it takes to "harden" a system
>> that already starts a thousand services (typical "desktop Linux"
>> scenario these days), and the number of times I've seen this
>> sort of customization cause even more headaches, I'd say this
>> is a slightly exaggerated statement.
>
> You might be thinking of SELinux, which is not the only option for
> hardening.

Not really, no. I was referring to the practice of starting a gazillion
services by default, including dbus, avahi, ftp and http services,
file sharing components, and all the rest of the stuff that is now
commonly installed as part of a "Linux desktop".  SELinux is indeed
one form of hardening, but I wasn't referring specifically to it; exactly
the opposite, in fact.

>> You are right that a "plain user" does not care about why their
>> CD-ROM is not accessible after installation, but there are two
>> different ways to approach this:
>>
>> - Install and enable everything by default, hoping that nothing
>> =C2=A0 bad happens when an unused service is exploitable.
>> - Install a minimal system and build from there.
>>
>> Most Linux distributions pick the first option. _Some_ Linux
>> distributions pick the second option (e.g. Gentoo).
>
> You might be thinking of Gentoo Linux, rather than Gentoo. The term
> Gentoo also covers Gentoo/FreeBSD and Gentoo Prefix. Gentoo/FreeBSD
> replaces the Linux kernel and GNU userland with FreeBSD while Gentoo
> Prefix provides a userland package manager to UNIX-compatible systems:

Gentoo Linux is what I was talking about. It's one of the distributions
that does lean towards the "install only what is necessary" side of the
spectrum.

The main point is not whether Gentoo/Linux or Gentoo/BSD is the
best color for the particular bikeshed though.  It was that one _has_
the option both with Linux and BSD as a base to implement both
types of installations.  Hardening can be either an install-time
property or an after-effect. It's really not OS-dependent at all.



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