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Date:      Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:54:59 -0400 (EDT)
From:      Chuck Robey <chuckr@mat.net>
To:        Jacques Vidrine <n@nectar.com>
Cc:        FreeBSD Ports Team <ports@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: /sys/boot, egcs vs. gcc, -Os 
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.10.9904082148190.378-100000@picnic.mat.net>
In-Reply-To: <199904090122.UAA52632@spawn.nectar.com>

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On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Jacques Vidrine wrote:

> No, I do understand.  I guess I shall rephrase -- I don't like having
> X11BASE and LOCALBASE ... I would like to just have LOCALBASE.   If that
> were the case, there would be nowhere for the ports to move :-)

X stuff needs to have it's own hierarchy.  It could be reserved for ONLY
X11, but X needs it's own, can't easily be moved, and you wouldn't want
the headaches you'd get if you moved it.

You would have the same kind of problems with most stuff that uses imake
to build.  No, honestly, that's not a fix.  having someone with a BIG
stick that waves it at anyone being prommiscuous about installs is the
only real way.

> So I can get an idea of how necessary /usr/X11R6 really is.

Go take a look at Software Portability with Imake, from O'Reilly.  Then
peruse your /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/config directory.  Bring aspirin.

I'm sorry, but I'm being serious.

> 
> > John already told you, when you start from scratch, you get a
> > perfect install.  That's why Satoshi, with his squeaky-clean chroot
> > environments, never sees these problems.  Real users, however, go thru
> > tins of aspirin trying to understand why gimp won't upgrade.
> 
> It takes both ... Satoshi's environment catches errors in the ports
> that I would never see on my machine.

OK, I'll buy that.

  This is why I keep repeating
> ``send-pr, send-pr.''  I am lazy.  I'll do what I can to make sure
> that a port that I maintain or touch works in as many environments
> as I can see, but I can't/won't try everything that real users will.

True.  You cut the part where I admitted being part of the problem
there.

> Go ahead and start cvs removing ports and see what the users say.  Do
> you really think that if one removes, say, ports/audio/replay, that no
> one will miss it?

Not one user will complain if he loses neat-widget42, as long as there
is a neat-widget.  No one except a very small number of developers (who
know perfectly well how to do this for themselves) wants or needs
multiple concurrent versions on their machines, especially at the
horrendous cost to everyone else.


----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------
Chuck Robey                 | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chuckr@picnic.mat.net       | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770         | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current)
(301) 220-2114              | and jaunt (Solaris7).
----------------------------+-----------------------------------------------






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