From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 30 22:07:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A462E16A4CE; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58DD543D3F; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (380c23419cb58bd9b9398cafedffbb6d@adsl-67-115-73-128.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.115.73.128])i2V67ObF011798; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:07:25 -0600 (CST) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A9F3B52145; Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:23 -0800 From: Kris Kennaway To: Poul-Henning Kamp Message-ID: <20040331060723.GA44504@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20040331054419.GA44221@xor.obsecurity.org> <7912.1080712084@critter.freebsd.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7912.1080712084@critter.freebsd.dk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i cc: arch@freebsd.org cc: Alex Keahan cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFD: XMLification of NOTES X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: arch@freebsd.org List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:07:26 -0000 --ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Mar 31, 2004 at 07:48:04AM +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > In message <20040331054419.GA44221@xor.obsecurity.org>, Kris Kennaway wri= tes: >=20 >=20 > >Don't change the topic. XML is not required for any of that, and > >someone could just as easily write those tools without it. Similarly, > >it's just as wrong to assume that changing to XML will magically cause > >all these tools to appear. >=20 > It is true that XML is not required, but XML is the format chosen > by the developer who has actually spent time on this, so I don't > think you have a particularly strong voice to critize his choice > unless you plan to spend your own time working on this issue. >=20 > Why the f**k are we so quick to shoot our own developers in the > back in this project ? Alexey's email did not mention the existence of a prototype implementation, only possibilities for future work. Go back to my previous response to him, where I pointed out that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and if he wants people to accept the initial step he needs to also provide a sufficiently good proof of concept to justify the pain of transition and maintenance. For example, I'd love a kernel dependency checker -- you may not be aware that I spend a lot of time answering support emails from people who didn't read the comments in NOTES or GENERIC about required dependencies of things like umass (that one comes up on questions@ at least once a week). It's the "if you build it, they will come" that I don't like: as you well know, FreeBSD does not have a good history with people making partial architectural changes under the assumption that someone else will finish the job later. If Alexey carries this to completion and comes up with a useful, usable set of tools, I think that's great! Kris --ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFAamAbWry0BWjoQKURAtiqAKDnRDUTZXQ88HbNKmJGee6kombmRACfXW4x lilDmKt7DKfsI1l5bAmgqn4= =dZdK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ReaqsoxgOBHFXBhH--