From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Feb 22 07:03:23 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92EF4106564A; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:03:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from josh@tcbug.org) Received: from out1.smtp.messagingengine.com (out1.smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5248FC15; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:03:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95EC920947; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 02:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1.messagingengine.com ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 22 Feb 2011 02:03:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=messagingengine.com; h=from:to:subject:date:cc:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:message-id; s=smtpout; bh=PZsflNLY9INovIWw/J0WNZQ1/z0=; b=RaVUg2UjFt1vaJ7CPIERGARpILYFHehpGcyhwipg11S1sJUVx7EMiTBaLKsQ9na9X1uE/VSpPSVfCIYiwLI14y/8PsxJva87myAAzsjcPe0uZ9PdVduOWFwU9BWhbx/kjE93vn45CebXRif3VaIcnOY6Rvm0F9GArNDFsX/+yko= X-Sasl-enc: zIzC3TaLCdg5WNm0wG01GDEVTPK0Gz1dRkCKWwacEUk6 1298358202 Received: from tcbug.ixsystems.com (74-34-19-98.dr01.rsmt.mn.frontiernet.net [74.34.19.98]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2783C401AC0; Tue, 22 Feb 2011 02:03:22 -0500 (EST) From: Josh Paetzel To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 01:03:07 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.13.5 (FreeBSD/8.1-RELEASE; KDE/4.4.5; amd64; ; ) References: <4D35CFFB.3010302@freebsd.org> <201102211612.51233.josh@tcbug.org> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1403105.siBJnKaS6S"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <201102220103.20158.josh@tcbug.org> Cc: Bruce Cran , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Devin Teske , Nathan Whitehorn , freebsd-sysinstall@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Installer Roadmap X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 07:03:23 -0000 --nextPart1403105.siBJnKaS6S Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Monday, February 21, 2011 08:38:03 pm Devin Teske wrote: >=20 > Really, the crux of the issue is that our organization is **just now** > migrating off of FreeBSD-4 (yes, it's true... there are over 1,000 > FreeBSD-4.11 machines running in production at this very moment spanning > the entire United States, parts of India, and parts of the Indo-pacific > rim). Worse? We just added yet-another 200+ to those ranks in the past 2 > months. >=20 > My hat is off to you sir... as I envy your position that you can be so > free-moving. We are encumbered by entrenched methods and do not have the > luxury of trying new things for the sake of change (case in-point, since > bsdinstall brings nothing new to the table that we rely upon, it truly > would be change for the sake of change in our organization). >=20 > Fin de dialectics. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Cheers, > Devin Teske Maintaining sysinstall for 4.x is indeed a NOOP, since features aren't bein= g=20 added to it, and the featureset that sysinstall supports is pretty much in= =20 line with the featureset in 4...no ZFS, no geom_*, etc etc etc. On the other hand, maintaining sysinstall for the next N years of new FreeB= SD=20 releases seems hard, when it's already missing features compared to what=20 =46reeBSD supports, and that's likely to continue to grow. I totally agree that for internal use, migrating thousands of lines of code= =20 makes no sense whatsoever, especially if sysinstall meets your needs and yo= u=20 don't care about the functionality it doesn't have. Exporting that to the= =20 community seems to be a questionable use of resources. I'm no stranger to large deployments. With my ${WORK} hat on we can instal= l a=20 thousand FreeBSD systems in a week. In my 16+ years of involvement with=20 =46reeBSD I've written three automated installers...quite frankly, ditching= =20 sysinstall for that happened really fast. I do admit to being a tad curious where you find systems that can run FreeB= SD=20 4 at this point. A single socket intel shows up as 8 or 12 CPUs these days= ,=20 more than enough to tie 4.x into knots. Add in disk controllers, NICs, ACP= I=20 (modern systems use that for nearly everything it seems) and suddenly an=20 installer seems the least of the concerns. I suppose my last question is along the lines of, "If adding geom_mirror=20 support to sysinstall was easy, why has it been 6+ years since gmirror made= =20 it's appearance in FreeBSD and you still can't create or install to a gmirr= or=20 with sysinstall?" =20 =2D-=20 Thanks, Josh Paetzel --nextPart1403105.siBJnKaS6S Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAABAgAGBQJNY1+3AAoJEKFq1/n1feG2WSYIAJ980gk0UpqyK+KcevHJQoxQ 1hxgj+UP4/cbpdyNn3tjOck9W3Hxtnz9zhdoZOEQOz/MtoCJzhE03n4ysnzC7lhs vwNduIyoV1hViFbsW681y56MmPn30LptTvyzhkYbMHuJQa5GuQr+ptXgQPHIBQC/ Cg9xcEDhUrWUhHqK1b2jZ3puWZNyeSOCI/ixWgdx4zCfRO4NiL2nNW5KAZaTf/rE I2R9+B2c6cU/ikMdcZaIo5hCmsNxKsBO3wgAel6EvX1RV4vCettHOTSaeC4fSoD6 fl3Vso/eR5aWe8PWgHBXBi5BtJRQ+ZYyiHNFJJYpLclL27Qp4uVJ7jFeljcKL7o= =Bzo2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1403105.siBJnKaS6S--