Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 08:42:19 -0800 From: "jeff" <iratus@home.com> To: <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: RE: The real Unix problem Message-ID: <NEBBKIDDGKFNBNKKJJDKKEDACAAA.iratus@home.com> In-Reply-To: <200011261113.AA80740688@wdc.callgtn.com>
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I am writng this from an NT box - please no flames - I love FreeBSD and unix in general precisely because it can be set-up to just about what ever I want - But the central problem has been and continues to be the need to get certain kinds of work done, so-called office apps etc. The sad truth is that most people seem unwilling to learn even these "office-apps" let alone the arcana of Windows (which IMHO is vastly more difficult precisely because so much is hidden) or "gasssppp" unix (in any form). The bottom line for me is so what? I need to get work done and really don't care which system I use as long as the WORK GETS DONE. If some folks aren't, can't or won't learn (or read or put up with the occasional rudeness of some of these lists) oh well. If MS is some kind of de facto standard then who do we look to for that fiasco (since it is in the last analysis our money we give to MS)????? Please no flames as this is merely my 2 cents. Jeff Phillips -----Original Message---- From: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG]On Behalf Of Erik Rothwell Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 8:14 To: Chris Wasser Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: The real Unix problem ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Chris Wasser <cwasser@v-wave.com> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 02:22:23 -0700 >On Sun, Nov 26, 2000 at 03:23:54AM -0500, Erik Rothwell wrote: >> You are *such* a fucking tool, sorry to say, but uhm... why >> not try /etc/rc.local or /usr/local/etc/rc.d ??? I really >> effin' hate these windows vs. BSD debates, because they are so >> childish. . . but, your inadequacy does not make an operating >> system suck. BSD allows vast amounts of configuration, and >> for that, you must pay the price of not being pampered by >> the Windows congolomorate. >> Learn about something before you install it, bro. > >To those who took the time to read this reply in this rather >unseemingly thread, my gratitude for you taking the time to >read my perhaps controversial opinions on it instead of >skipping over it based on header :) lol ;-) >Unfortunately, he has a point which seems to be escaping almost >everyone who has replied to this thread: > >Ever since the adaptation of Microsoft Windows as the "standard" >for the "home user", the very nature in the design of such >software has taken the "oldschool" hackers (I mean MSDOS >or PCDOS, OS/9, PC-MOS386, etc) and turned him/her into the >lowest common denominator for those who don't have the time >nor the inclination to learn. > >All in the name of "convienience" and "ease of use". > >Some of my clients can't even navigate their way around Windows >itself because they simply don't have the aptitude to assimilate >the information in a coherent manner (whether it be some deep >seated fear of computers -- as odd as that sounds, I still meet >some people who are afraid of computers) and thus OS's such >as FreeBSD seem completely alien to them (afterall, there's >no place to click to install this or that) > >The fault doesn't lie with the user, in this case, a very >distraught and upset person who for all we know, care barely >find the "Start" button. I'll bet he barely understands the >"dos prompt" in Windows much less then how to compile a kernel. > >I don't mean this to add to the already numerous insults he's >received, I emphasize it to illustrate that not everyone out >there in computer-land is from the days when some of us used >Radiation King monitors and machines that weren't even measured >in MHz. > >The true culprit is monolithic corporations such as Microsoft >who in what I'm sure was originally once a noble idea to make >computers easier to use, has sacrificed the control some of us >DEMAND from our operating systems to fit into a world costantly >in a hurry to get somewhere and shit-canned everyone into the >same mould and thus produces users who end up getting >frustrated because they only think on the one wavelength in >which they were "educated" into. > >The end result is we who understand and can sit on this side >of the fence look down on those on the other side of the fence >who simply don't know any better. Instead of retorting back >with insults, perhaps it would have been a better avenue to >suggest help in a more helpful manner. > >I realize to some of you, you might be thinking, "we don't >need his kind anyways". It's unlikely to me that any of us >were not at one time in his shoes, albeit perhaps went >about learning and asking questions in a much more >acceptable manner. > >The way I see it, every user I help introduce into FreeBSD >(anything to break the hold of the Borg) is one more addition >to the cause... Which to my understaning is one of our goals >here people, yes? > ></ramble> > >My 2 cents... >Chris Wasser Some good food for thought! You make several good points throughout, and I agree with much of it. On a side note: I'm well aquainted with the [flame]War of the OSes, being an "ex"-Macintosh user, I'd get them all the time from MSDOS/Windows users who felt they owned the world with their "superior OS." So, perhaps participating in this thread is a bit old school coming from that perspective ;-) yanno, a bit o' nostalgia ;-) At any rate, it's not a stupid question, that he asked. I would not have known the answer for instance, if I had freshly installed BSD and had never previously used any flavour of Unix. What irked me was the fact that he was rude, insulting, and hostile. Perhaps responding rudely, with insults and hostility was a bit tacky, nonetheless the deed is done ;-) Erik. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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