From owner-freebsd-wireless@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Sep 9 06:33:33 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63DF758E; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 06:33:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qc0-x22d.google.com (mail-qc0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DE4A7D5; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 06:33:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id w7so16727537qcr.4 for ; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 23:33:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Z+PUS+ISMhaE9jQEdypPVBUTYmGGpcK2ClCGntTiSwY=; b=LK35B+/7QTF8F6UPqnQXqTQgTD0euQGFrj1xsmxskdBTwHKoOqEojwSKdZB2DZbOe8 X6SXnw09FGtDM9Yq6vTQFA7u+qgZJK9s8HRzIyEJRW4YIa12rQeywNRaqv3T9EgpXSuf qxmWm7SB8wm/vd6B7YJ8G37Vb16q/ICACwMNlANIYytqgyTtszya4v/DcuY605C1A+gT EmJpy2zrmDC2bs1GcyhYsbAvRZVI1lA4tUcc2WxUAC7vnBG6AA+HqmU0KhcPD77H9/RK oIdzY70Y0/dM8hjnWD5rWXodpAqkvme/cPKvsD3Gd3GkYW/C092h9qdCBPfBcLUexrcK 6Qkw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.36.4 with SMTP id r4mr47998080qad.69.1410244411909; Mon, 08 Sep 2014 23:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.39.139 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 23:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.39.139 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Sep 2014 23:33:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140909055310.GA18936@ns.kevlo.org> References: <20140830195721.GA12450@neutralgood.org> <5403AD08.60605@pinyon.org> <20140901105350.GJ57121@e-new.0x20.net> <20140909055310.GA18936@ns.kevlo.org> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 23:33:31 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0wCTCXlzzIkt_CNvfkgbzOPG-OA Message-ID: Subject: Re: TL-WN722N support on FreeBSD. From: Adrian Chadd To: Kevin Lo Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.18-1 Cc: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions of 802.11 stack, tools device driver development." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:33:33 -0000 Oh it is fun. :) +a On Sep 8, 2014 10:54 PM, "Kevin Lo" wrote: > On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 11:11:20AM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > > > The problem -is- the money. The people will come when there's enough > > interest and enough money. > > > > The problem is that people think things like wifi drivers that are > > debugged, perform well and get updated as new standards appear is a > > few months effort - and I think the herculean efforts done in the past > > by people like Sam fuel this myth. > > > > I've spent almost two years of weekends and evenings hacking on > > net80211 and the atheros driver to get it to where it is. The 11n > > support for atheros chips appeared when someone (hi Hobnob!) paid me > > for six months to get 11n done. I'm still debugging weird corner cases > > with rate control and congestion handling even now. And this is _on > > top_ of all the work done by the Atheros team to write the HAL in the > > first place. > > > > I've spent almost 18 months of weekends/evenings hacking on the intel > > iwn driver to find all the little odd corner cases that make it > > unusable by a lot of people. I keep saying I'm not, but since the > > laptops I'm using have iwn in them, I end up getting annoyed enough to > > fix it. This has all been for free. > > > > Wireless stuff is a very complicated, very time consuming thing that's > > immensely fun if you're into this kind of thing. But please understand > > - it's a huge time commitment for each individual device and new > > standard. > > > > So yes, it's the money. I've jokingly said that it's $100k and 2 years > > for me in (evenings, weekends) time and equipment to port and debug > > one driver for a given NIC. Not just do a "oh look here's an openbsd > > driver ported from linux in a month" port - that's just the beginning > > (and I tend to quote something like $10k for that) - I mean, something > > that ends up implementing the updated standards (11n, 11ac soon); > > something that includes powersave, something that includes debugging, > > something that handles a multitude of bad environments that people see > > every day and complain about. Ie - the level of work that makes it "oh > > it just works, I can get on with work now" level of work. > > > > I don't want to let myself be dragged into another two years of > > weekends. I kind of need some sleep here and there. > > I can't find a reason why I disagree with you. > I have almost forgotten that wifi hacking can be fun if it results > in something working... > > > -a > > Kevin >